Layton Strikes While Iron Is Hot

[maplesyrup]

What Bush didn't say in Ottawa

Martin got absolutely zilch from Bush.

It is time to get a government in power in Canada who is really going to stand up for Canada.

[Stoker]

QUOTE 

And then the majority of the Liberal party, alongside the Conservative party will vote for BMD........thanks for coming out Jack 

And this is a good thing...why?

Is not democracy a good thing? Is not a vote amongest MPs better then a Liberal (or Tory) government railroading BMD? If that many Canadians oppose BMD, I'm sure they will voice their opinions to their Members of Parliment.

[Cartman]

As the US pressured us to help in Iraq or at least support the war efforts there to legitimize it, we have a right to explain why Canadians are against this war. It should be done without stomping on dolls or using words like "moron" etc, and Layton did just that. He represented himself better than some Liberals and yet people are upset that he talks to Bush in a civil manner. WTF?

[Stoker]

More importantly though...........

.......I wonder what was discussed it their meeting?

Harper/Bush/Rice are remaining tight lipped......must have been good mind you, since Harper only expected a short meeting but had the President's ear for longer than expected.

No doubt it was about exploting our resources, sending our (few) troops to Iraq and surrending our rights to become the 51st state......

[August1991]

August constantly rants against the CBC, Layton, the NDP, and anything else that represents Canada's independence from the US. His constant personall attacks against Layton with nothing of any substance sound like a broken record that keeps playing, and playing, and playing.

I have no problem with a Canadian politician disagreeing with an American politician. I would expect a Canadian politician to defend Canada's interests.

I just think that haranguing the US Pres about missile defense at a cocktail is not a good way to accomplish anything. It's akin to the insurance salesman trying to develop a prospect talking to a parent at a children's birthday party.

[i wasn't there and I don't know how Layton discussed the issue with Bush. I'm left The Toronto Star's Susand Delacourt's description. Bush Jnr's dismissal of Layton makes sense of my comparison above though... ]

PM PM managed to make it plain that he wants better relations with the US administration. This didn't register anywhere in America but it certainly registered in Canada and in Washington.

I happen to think that most Canadians would prefer to see our government get along with the US administration. So, I suspect that PM PM gained votes over the past few days. If in addition PM PM can get anywhere with beef and lumber, he will truly contribute to winning a majority government next time out.

Let's see how the polls play out in the coming weeks.

[Black Dog]

The weaponization of space will be reality within 20 years no matter what Canada says. We can be on the side of the guys who have the weapons...or not, but we can't stop it from happening.

Regardless, we should take a principled stand against it. If the U.S. wants to blow billions on a worthless weapons system to defend against imaginary threats, that's their perogative, but we should have nothing to do with it.

What did Bush ever do to Canada? NOT Iraq. CANADA. Why are we so worried about his policies elsewhere when his policies toward us especially on trade have been better than the Democratic alternative?

Have they? Softwood lumber, the BSE ban, bans on perscription drugs: all happened on Bush's watch.

Furthermore, I find the whole "screw the rest of the world: let's get ours" attitude to be unpalatable.

Harper/Bush/Rice are remaining tight lipped......must have been good mind you, since Harper only expected a short meeting but had the President's ear for longer than expected.

I doubt Harper wa stight-lipped during his meeting. In fact I'm sure his mouth was wide open....

[Cartman]

If in addition PM PM can get anywhere with beef and lumber, he will truly contribute to winning a majority government next time out.

I agree with this statement August and I do suspect that the Liberals will win a majority next time. While rudeness to prez Bush will solve nothing, do you think that being really nice will accomplish much? This is a sincere question. It seems to me that the border will open up when businesses in the US (that strongly desire our products) exert sufficient pressure. Is not free trade a business interest?

[Black Dog]

Is not free trade a business interest?

Depends. Much of the current trade difficulties between the two countries have been percipitated or at least excrebated by U.S. business interests.

That's why I find claims that "we need to rebuild our tattered relationship with the U.S." to be so disingeous : the U.S. will always act, first and foremost, in its own interest (which are the interests of the powerful U.S. corporate lobbies). Right now, those interests are opposed to free trade. There's not much we can do to change the situation one way or another.

[August1991]

While rudeness to prez Bush will solve nothing, do you think that being really nice will accomplish much?

64 dollar question, Cartman.

At the moment, any industrial lobby in the US can get the ear of enough Congressman and close the border. The US economy overall loses and our producers too.

Mulroney attempted to solve this problem with the dispute mechanism in the FTA (this mechanism is now part of the WTO system). It sort of works.

Trudeau took a different approach in 1971. (But we were facing a protectionist Administration not a protectionist Congress.)

I don't know what approach is best. I guess getting the Administration on side and then playing Congress like any domestic lobby. We should argue strongly that blocking meat and softwood imports hurts the US economy more than it benefits a small number of US producers.

The fall in the US dollar will help too.

----

The problem with the tough guy approach is that the US Congress is like the proverbial water bed. You can't beat it into submission.

Much of the current trade difficulties between the two countries have been percipitated or at least excrebated by U.S. business interests.

The problem is that the US Congress will not resign sovereignty to an international trade panel. How do we ensure governments will not hinder free trade?

[Cartman]

the U.S. will always act, first and foremost, in its own interest (which are the interests of the powerful U.S. corporate lobbies). Right now, those interests are opposed to free trade. There's not much we can do to change the situation one way or another.

That is what I am saying. Will kissing ass do any good? There seems to be a sense that protests against Bush ruin our economy. It seems to me they will have little effect.

[Black Dog]

The problem is that the US Congress will not resign sovereignty to an international trade panel. How do we ensure governments will not hinder free trade?

They signed NAFTA. Therefore, they agreed to defer such amters to a international trade panel. yet the consistently refuse to play by the rules they agreed to. So really, why should we waste our time playing nice with them?

[maplesyrup]

NDP wants probe into Layton's 'breach'

Jack Layton was forced to limit his questions on missile defence Wednesday in the House of Commons, a situation his party says breached his privilege.

The NDP leader was trying to question the Liberal government about missile defence, each time prefacing his question by saying he talked to either U.S. President George W. Bush or State Secretary Colin Powell about the issue. He was hooted down each time, first by Conservatives, then by both Tory and Liberal MPs.

Did anyone else watch Question Period today? I was disappointed by the Speaker's behaviour, to say nothing about the boorish rudeness of the Liberals and Conservatives.

It seems quite obvious to me that Layton's NDP scored big with the Canadian people this week, which I expect will be reflected in the upcoming opinion polls.

[Stoker]

Did anyone else watch Question Period today? I was disappointed by the Speaker's behaviour, to say nothing about the boorish rudeness of the Liberals and Conservatives.

I saw it (just before lunch time PST), and to be quite honest, I couldn't control my laughter.......I thought it funny how each time the "booing" started, Layton would sit down and started mumbling, and looked as though he was going to start crying

Do you know for a fact which party was booing him? I noticed the CBC commentator mentioned it was too bad that we couldn't tell because of the camera angle.

It seems quite obvious to me that Layton's NDP scored big with the Canadian people this week, which I expect will be reflected in the upcoming opinion polls.

I couldn't agree more, he's well on his way to a strong majority government..........

[maplesyrup]

Try reading the link!

[Cartman]

Try reading the link!

This should not be a partisan issue. This is a Canadian issue. If Layton brings up information in the preamble to his questions, give it a hearing and if silly, it will be acknowledged as such. But, booing is just nonsense and can serve no purpose. Pretty sad when the Bloc continues to be the best opposition to the Liberals. Unfortunately, I agree with Duceppe when he says that Canadians have been well served by their work.

[August1991]

This should not be a partisan issue. This is a Canadian issue.

I agree.

The few times I have watched the federal House during question period, I have come away with a lousy feeling. Too often, they are simply yelling.

Maybe if we took the desks away, they might feel exposed as in the British House of Commons and be more adult. Perhaps the Speaker should start tossing them out like schoolboys.

At the same time, there is nothing quite like Question Period when a major issue breaks.

[maplesyrup]

Bush asks for more help

If Martin thinks he has problems with the immigration portfolio, I would imagine BMD is going to make those fence sitting splinters seem awfully painful by comparison. This missle defence issue has legs and both Le Bloc and the NDP are opposed to it. I have a hunch Martin's dreams of a quick election to obtain a majority government have just been trashed.

-from Dec 1 Hansard:

Mr. Jack Layton (Toronto—Danforth, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence. Yesterday Colin Powell told me that the current version of star wars--

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

    The Speaker: Order, please. I sense a lot of anticipation on the part of hon. members. However, it is the hon. member for Toronto—Danforth who has the floor and we will want to hear his question.

    Mr. Jack Layton: Mr. Speaker, Colin Powell told me that the weapons in space that he proposes--

    The Speaker: Order, please. The hon. member for Toronto—Danforth is entitled to put his question despite the excitement that it generates. I would hope that hon. members would show a little restraint until they have heard the whole question. Then perhaps there will be the necessary applause or cheering.

    Mr. Jack Layton: Mr. Speaker, Colin Powell informed me that the weapons in space that are proposed, this time around, are different than the previous version of star wars because they are not aimed at earth. President Bush told me that the project was not being--

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

    The Speaker: Order, please. Perhaps the member for Toronto—Danforth could skip the quote and put the question because unfortunately we are running out of time even with all these interruptions. I am trying to be generous with the hon. member under the circumstances.

    Mr. Jack Layton: With all due respect, Mr. Speaker, I hope you will take the time from those who are shouting out. They used to have a chairman of their caucus who would have never countenanced that kind of behaviour. I can tell the House that the former chairman of that caucus would never have gone along with it.

    Will the Prime Minister say no to Canadian flags on--

    The Speaker: Order, please. I did try to get movement on this, but we are not getting far.

    Perhaps the hon. member could treat his supplementary as his question and put the question to the House because I have been very generous. I have avoided counting time against him with all these interruptions, but in spite of that, it is taking forever. We need to have the question. Perhaps we can go to the supplementary and have it all in one.

    Mr. Jack Layton: Mr. Speaker, will the Prime Minister say no to Canadian flags on George Bush's missiles?

    Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we had a very successful visit yesterday by the President of the United States and Secretary of State Colin Powell. Indeed, we had exchanges of the utmost importance for the future of our continent that is really the envy of the world. We must continue to ensure that.

    We will continue to be deeply interested in the defence and security of our continent. As to the participation in the ballistic missile defence system, this is a decision that will be made in due course in Canada after a vote in this House of Commons in the best interests of Canadians.

¸  (1435) 

    The Speaker: A very brief question from the hon. member for Toronto—Danforth. No preambles, just the question.

    Mr. Jack Layton (Toronto—Danforth, NDP): Mr. Speaker, we already know the Prime Minister's cavalier attitude toward the flag. With the evidence now absolutely clear that this is weapons in space, will the Prime Minister simply say no and say no now?

    Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government has always been very clear and we say an absolute no to the militarization of space. Our government has been clear on that and I repeat it in this House of Commons today.

    As to the respect for the Canadian flag, our Prime Minister does not need to take any lessons from the NDP leader. We will stand for the Canadian flag as we stand for our country. We will continue to make decisions in Canada in the best interests of Canadians, but with a wide perspective.

/200

[maplesyrup]

These above folks are the same people that were so afraid of the left making rude comments during Bush's visit. What hypocritical bunch of low-life scum - their behaviour is both disgusting and pathetic. :angry:

[JWayne625]

Layton certainly does not speak for all Canadian's, if he did he would now be sitting as our PM, or at the very least the Official Opposition, and he isn't. He's just another idiotic loudmouth, just like Carolyn Parrish, who also doesn't speak for most Canadian's.

The reality is that Canada would be toast without the trade we do with the United States, and the fact is our military is in such pitiful shape we couldn't rely on them to defend anyone. I hope that we don't find out the way the US did on 9/11 that this world is not safe for anyone as long as radical terrorits are allowed to do their thing. If something like that happens again, and I hope it doesn't, we will not be ready, because for some insane reason Canadian's have been lulled into this idea that this could never happen here. Being Canadian is no protection, we just haven't experienced that type of activity in Canada since the FLQ, and many of those protesting are too young to remember that it can and does happen in Canada.

[Black Dog]

the fact is our military is in such pitiful shape we couldn't rely on them to defend anyone.

Again: who do we need to be defended from?

I hope that we don't find out the way the US did on 9/11 that this world is not safe for anyone as long as radical terrorits are allowed to do their thing

Hmmm. The U.S.'s large military was powerless to prevent 9-11 and is currently fighting a losing battle against the "terrorists" in Iraq. I fail to see the value for Canada in joining the American crusade.

I saw it (just before lunch time PST), and to be quite honest, I couldn't control my laughter.......I thought it funny how each time the "booing" started, Layton would sit down and started mumbling, and looked as though he was going to start crying

Of course, you'd be choking on your rage if the same thing happened to Harpo.

[Choke]

These above folks are the same people that were so afraid of the left making rude comments during Bush's visit. What hypocritical bunch of low-life scum - their behaviour is both disgusting and pathetic.

I detect a hint of bitterness. The speaker should have just told him to shut the hell up.

I think any time a member gets booed into shutting up, he must be saying something pretty ridiculous.

[Stoker]

Of course, you'd be choking on your rage if the same thing happened to Harpo.

I can't think of a time that I've seen Harper lose his cool.......hell, Layton's little snit looked worse than Paul Martin "wind milling" during the debates....I'm still laughing

I just wish i could have seen the conversation between layton and Bush

[Black Dog]

I can't think of a time that I've seen Harper lose his cool.......

Of course, that would entail displaying some sort of emotion, which Harper is incapable of doing. Probably because, as we all know, he is a robot.

Made, of course, in the U.S.A.

Seriously though: it doesn't matter. If anyone had the nerve to boo Hareper down, you'd call for their heads.

[Choke]

Layton is a dumbass...I'd probably come off as a dumbass in parliament too...but I don't claim to be suited to the position and he does.

Seriously though: it doesn't matter. If anyone had the nerve to boo Hareper down, you'd call for their heads.

The point is, Harper doesn't say stupid crap that gets him booed down.

[Black Dog]

Layton is a dumbass...I'd probably come off as a dumbass in parliament too...but I don't claim to be suited to the position and he does.

Thanks for the insightful analyisis.

The point is, Harper doesn't say stupid crap that gets him booed down.

No dumbass: the point is that its not appropriate to boo down members of Parliment. This is especially ironic giventhat Bush skipped out on addressing parliment because his handlers and quislings feared he'd get heckled.