Milennials

[msj]

...cue old man shaking his fist at the cloud going by....

[cybercoma]

Kids these days. They don't know how to learn. Never mind that gramps probably asks his grandkids to program his VCR even though they all subscribe to Netflix and have never seen a VCR in their lives.

Edited September 26, 2016 by cybercoma

[Smoke]

You hear that, kimmy? You're a lazy piece of crap that's expecting handouts from the government and everyone else. If you just pay attention at work and learn instead of complaining, within a year you'll be running the company.

That's what you took from my comments? Never said she was lazy or that she was a piece of crap. That's just you putting words in someone else's mouth. Maybe you should read other's comments without your pre-conceived narrative in place. I am only saying some peoples expectations are not based in reality. What do think cybercoma? That people should get a free ride in life. Not make any sacrifices? Not have to take any lumps along the way. I realize many on the left actually do believe that a life is owed to them by someone else tho', so your comments are not unexpected.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Smoke

[msj]

Not sure if this is doubling down on the cloud fisting or double fisting the clouds....

[Smoke]

...cue old man shaking his fist at the cloud going by....

or cue the young "instant gratification" types shaking their fist at someone who is enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of labor....

[Smoke]

Not sure if this is doubling down on the cloud fisting or double fisting the clouds....

Care to debate the issue instead of showing us once again your typical smugness

[Smoke]

Kids these days. They don't know how to learn. Never mind that gramps probably asks his grandkids to program his VCR even though they all subscribe to Netflix and have never seen a VCR in their lives.

For someone who is always quick to be outraged when someone else lumps some "group" together you sure are making some generalizations about older people. It sounds more like you are trolling than trying to add to the debate.

[cybercoma]

That's what you took from my comments? Never said she was lazy or that she was a piece of crap. That's just you putting words in someone else's mouth. Maybe you should read other's comments without your pre-conceived narrative in place. I am only saying some peoples expectations are not based in reality. What do think cybercoma? That people should get a free ride in life. Not make any sacrifices? Not have to take any lumps along the way. I realize many on the left actually do believe that a life is owed to them by someone else tho', so your comments are not unexpected.

So she's not lazy or a piece a crap....just expecting a "free ride"? Wouldn't expecting a "free ride" (your words, not mine) be considered lazy? Is that not the point you're trying to make? That the expectation is to have things handed to you without working for them? Sounds a lot like calling someone lazy in not so many words.

[Smoke]

So she's not lazy or a piece a crap....just expecting a "free ride"? Wouldn't expecting a "free ride" (your words, not mine) be considered lazy? Is that not the point you're trying to make? That the expectation is to have things handed to you without working for them? Sounds a lot like calling someone lazy in not so many words.

Please re-read and try to understand this time. Or continue to twist things....don't matter to me.

[cybercoma]

For someone who is always quick to be outraged when someone else lumps some "group" together you sure are making some generalizations about older people. It sounds more like you are trolling than trying to add to the debate.

What? I'm supposed to have a serious conversation with someone who actually puts forward the argument that everyone of a certain age wants things handed to them without working for them? You're actually making that argument unironically without any consideration for how career paths today are entirely different from 30-40 years ago. You've not even considered that more people have post-secondary educations today than any other time in history. But I guess going to university and having letters after your name is not "work" to you. You think people have a sense of entitlement today when a fulltime job in the past allowed a single income to feed, cloth, and shelter an entire family, regardless of where that full-time work was. My dad was a butcher back in the day. You know what happened to butchers? They outsourced their jobs to minimum wage schmucks at packaging plants and grocery stores stopped cutting down livestock on site. The job no longer exists and it sure as hell doesn't pay enough to put a roof over a family of four, while providing enough for a retirement.

So what are we supposed to be debating? The fact that you're entirely clueless about the job market and the qualifications of millenials? That you're just ranting about some fabricated opinion you have of an entire generation? I've no interest in debating fantasy worlds.

[msj]

Care to debate the issue instead of showing us once again your typical smugness

What's to debate?

I wouldn't have such contempt for this type of thread populated by people like you and Big Guy and Mr Cum Laude® if there really was anything to debate.

But we all know this is about certain people sharing their anecdotal BS signifying nothing more than what a POS life these old people have had as they make up further BS about an entire group of people they know nothing about.

Edited September 26, 2016 by msj

[dialamah]

Please re-read and try to understand this time. Or continue to twist things....don't matter to me.

I got the same message from your post. You said "I was doing a lot of complaining back then, similar to Kimmy" and went on to explain how you were behaving like an entitled twit, till someone gave you a good talking to. Then you said "Sorry, not sorry, Kimmy that you will have to work your own ass off to get what you want in life.....nobody owes you anything"

If you didn't mean to call Kimmy lazy and unwilling to work, what exactly did those remarks mean?

[Big Guy]

... You're actually making that argument unironically without any consideration for how career paths today are entirely different from 30-40 years ago. You've not even considered that more people have post-secondary educations today than any other time in history. But I guess going to university and having letters after your name is not "work" to you. ...

Career paths are entirely different from 30-40 years ago, and career paths were entirely different from 30-40 years before then and career paths were entirely different 30-40 years before that and ...

Many things change in the workplace - except for what employers are looking for. In most cases, what University program the potential applicant has attained is secondary to their ability to adapt and retrain. In my parents generation, most people would stay in one career for their complete working cycle. In my generation, we have gone through at least 2 careers (I have gone through 3). The typical milennial can expect 3 or more careers as technology changes workplace efficiency and processes.

I believe the milennials have two challenges; The expectation that they will do better and have more than the previous generation and there is no longer such a thing as job guarantee. The first is expected because that is the case for every generation. The second is the realization that there will never be an end to learning, adapting and keeping up with the technologies if they are to stay employed and an asset to their employer.

Some members of every generation have blamed external forces and change on their failures - some members of every generation use their individual failures as lessons on what to change and adapt to become leaders in their fields.

It really is not very complicated.

[Smoke]

What? I'm supposed to have a serious conversation with someone who actually puts forward the argument that everyone of a certain age wants things handed to them without working for them? You're actually making that argument unironically without any consideration for how career paths today are entirely different from 30-40 years ago. You've not even considered that more people have post-secondary educations today than any other time in history. But I guess going to university and having letters after your name is not "work" to you. You think people have a sense of entitlement today when a fulltime job in the past allowed a single income to feed, cloth, and shelter an entire family, regardless of where that full-time work was. My dad was a butcher back in the day. You know what happened to butchers? They outsourced their jobs to minimum wage schmucks at packaging plants and grocery stores stopped cutting down livestock on site. The job no longer exists and it sure as hell doesn't pay enough to put a roof over a family of four, while providing enough for a retirement.

So what are we supposed to be debating? The fact that you're entirely clueless about the job market and the qualifications of millenials? That you're just ranting about some fabricated opinion you have of an entire generation? I've no interest in debating fantasy worlds.

If people like you ever took the time to listen instead of feigning outrage you’d realize how hypocritical you sound. Let me rephrase your words except from my point of view. “What? I'm supposed to have a serious conversation with someone (Kimmy) who actually puts forward the argument that everyone of a certain age (old people, I think she referred to someone as “Gramps”) had better opportunities than today’s generation.” There are a lot of millennials out there currently working and supporting their families. My nephew just got his “Heavy Equipment Operators” license and started out at $38/hr. That must drive people with university arts degrees nuts while they work in menial jobs. Sorry, not sorry, that you chose to work in an industry that does not have as great an opportunity as other industries.

You make the argument that there are more university degrees out there than ever. That would support the argument that maybe there aren’t enough jobs requiring university degrees out there. You know the “supply/demand” thing that so many on the left (with their higher number of university graduates than conservatives) seem to always deny. Maybe you feel that it’s up to government to “create” jobs where no demand exists so that people with university degrees can be gainfully employed.

I’ve been working over 40 years and full-time jobs that allowed a single income family to survive have never been the norm during that time. My mother had to work to supplement my father’s income. We only had six children in our family and we had shelter and food, but wore hand-me-downs, only had one TV and did without many luxuries of life that are taken for granted in today’s world. We were considered an average family as far as wealth went. Yes many rural families supported 15 children back in the day but they were generally dirt poor. We also didn’t have iphones and tablets and all the other mostly useless and costly gadgets that the younger generation consider a “must” have in order to survive their incredibly hard-done-by lives.

In regards to butchers, well, some jobs disappear. Tried getting a job in a factory in Ontario lately?

With every post you make, I believe more strongly that it is you who actually lives in a fantasy world.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Smoke

[Smoke]

Career paths are entirely different from 30-40 years ago, and career paths were entirely different from 30-40 years before then and career paths were entirely different 30-40 years before that and ...

Many things change in the workplace - except for what employers are looking for. In most cases, what University program the potential applicant has attained is secondary to their ability to adapt and retrain. In my parents generation, most people would stay in one career for their complete working cycle. In my generation, we have gone through at least 2 careers (I have gone through 3). The typical milennial can expect 3 or more careers as technology changes workplace efficiency and processes.

I believe the milennials have two challenges; The expectation that they will do better and have more than the previous generation and there is no longer such a thing as job guarantee. The first is expected because that is the case for every generation. The second is the realization that there will never be an end to learning, adapting and keeping up with the technologies if they are to stay employed and an asset to their employer.

Some members of every generation have blamed external forces and change on their failures - some members of every generation use their individual failures as lessons on what to change and adapt to become leaders in their fields.

It really is not very complicated.

Well said!

[BC_chick]

The bickering on this thread is quite sad, actually. The older generation starts on a ridiculous premise, and the middle and younger generation get all defensive and go on a counter attack.

The thing is, us middle-aged people have witnessed first hand what the life is like for boomers (our parents), gen x (ourselves) and gen y (our kids/nieces/newphews etc).

It's easy for us to understand the advantages and disadvantages that each generation faced. We have perspective because we've lived with all three.

While it's easy to put down the old timers for being out of touch, there is a good chance we are going to end up with the exact same perspective when our grand children start living in a world that is completely unknown to us.

A little understanding is what they may lack, but I don't think the proper retort to express the same lack of understanding towards them.

[msj]

I disagree BC_Chick - I know very little to come up with the crass BS generalizations that others, and the OP in particular, have done.

What I have seen is a sliver of reality and to pretend otherwise and to come up with the BS opinions in the OP is very deserving of contempt.

This thread is little more than some grampa shaking his fist at a cloud in the sky - completely worthless hence CC's early response and my response too.

[cybercoma]

The irony of the VCR comment was that it was a BS generalization, like what I was responding to. That was the point of it.

[Bonam]

This thread is little more than some grampa shaking his fist at a cloud in the sky - completely worthless hence CC's early response and my response too.

Indeed. As grandpas have done for thousands of years. The last rantings of a dying generation, we can let them pass with a measure of dignity. Us millennials pay the taxes that let grandpa sit on his porch and rant away.

[?Impact]

Us millennials pay the taxes that let grandpa sit on his porch and rant away.

Boomers & Gen X are paying way more taxes than the millennials. Many grandpa's are also paying a lot of taxes, but a significant number are not.

[BC_chick]

I disagree BC_Chick - I know very little to come up with the crass BS generalizations that others, and the OP in particular, have done.

What I have seen is a sliver of reality and to pretend otherwise and to come up with the BS opinions in the OP is very deserving of contempt.

This thread is little more than some grampa shaking his fist at a cloud in the sky - completely worthless hence CC's early response and my response too.

I don't dispute that their posts were generalizations and inaccurate.

I'm just saying that I don't think any of them anticipated being a fist shaker any more than we plan on it at our age, however, it's just an unfortunate progression of life when the gap in time becomes bigger.

I think treating them with contempt for what is a rather natural part of life is not much better than their generalizations about millennials.

[msj]

I think treating them with contempt for what is a rather natural part of life is not much better than their generalizations about millennials.

I treat them with contempt because one would think that with all that experience one would/should know better.

Yet here were are, aren't we.....

[dialamah]

I don't dispute that their posts were generalizations and inaccurate.

I'm just saying that I don't think any of them anticipated being a fist shaker any more than we plan on it at our age, however, it's just an unfortunate progression of life when the gap in time becomes bigger.

Not every 'old person' automatically impugns the work ethic, personality, behavior and attitude of those removed by a generation or two. It's the same lazy thinking that leads to broadbrushing of any group of people - fueled by a yen to demonstrate how much "better" the speaker is than the people they're criticizing. Perhaps old folks should be forgiven for indulging in lazy thinking, but I personally would rather not fall into that trap regardless of how old I get.

[BC_chick]

I'm not defending what they said and I don't agree with it. I just don't believe in using ageist insults.

It's stooping to their level.

[kimmy]

And guess what....I'm still working my ass off to maintain what I have, but have retirement in the near future. Sorry, not sorry, Kimmy that you will have to work your own ass off to get what you want in life.....nobody owes you anything.

Whenever I respond to ignorant old-people spouting crap, people always assume I'm unemployed or broke or something.

This isn't particularly about me, but because people seem to have assumptions about me, I'll make a few comments about my personal circumstances.

I'm 33 years old, own my own apartment and my own vehicle, and earn about $50k per year, which I gather is a little above the Canadian average. I have no debts, aside from my mortgage which is about 1/3 paid off. I'm certainly not wealthy, but I am doing "ok" by the modest standards of today, and I've gotten this far without a penny of help from anyone.

So when I lash out at posts like Cum Laude's, it's not an unsuccessful person lashing out at successful people. I don't hate what Cum Laude wrote because I'm bitter, I just hate it because it's stupid and all-too-typical of the smug idiocy I hear all the time from Boomers.

or cue the young "instant gratification" types shaking their fist at someone who is enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of labor....

I'm knee deep in the lifetime of labor thing, as are most of my peers. The lifetime of labor part isn't what people are upset about, it's that it's going to bear much less "fruit" than previous generations.

-k