Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[Guest]

So you wouldn't have a problem letting in 300,000 Nazis every year, am I right? I mean, what could be the harm?

Of course not. As long as they behaved themselves.

[Argus]

Of course not. As long as they behaved themselves.

Most Canadians disagree.

[Rue]

Canadians are mostly passive and naive. Canada was such a proud country after the World Wars, but has descended into a land of politically correct, gullible nicompoops.

I agree with you but your insults were very Canadian.

This country's current regime captures what you say.

Trudeau is a blithering example of embracing Muslim religious extremists with one hand and progressive Western values with the other seeing no disconnect in is I am everything to everyone selfie dance.

This country needs to grow balls and stop defining itself by saying what it is not.

Don't tell me I now must embrace people with intolerant beliefs.

No I am not racist because I say you want to cover your head and look out a tiny slit, you are a danger when driving a school bus.

No I am not offended they serve pulled pork sandwitches at Tim Horton's.

That said, its impossible to totally be able to screen out extremists. If they want to lie, they will and people coming

here will say whatever you want them to say to get in. Its human nature.

.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rue

[Guest]

Most Canadians disagree.

But you only asked me.

Edit> I don't care what people think. I only care what they do.

Edited September 30, 2016 by bcsapper

[msj]

Most Canadians disagree.

Nice use of the logical fallacy called "appeal to the masses" or argumentum ad populum.

[PIK]

67% of Canadians agree the other 33% don't care about the country or its value, morals and traditions.

[Rue]

Of course not. As long as they behaved themselves.

What does that mean? You have no problems taking in terrorists as long as they don't engage in terrorism?

You don't have problems taking in sexual deviants as long as they keep their penises in their pockets?

How far do you want to go with that statement?

Yep know people like "you". They talk big about accommodation until the pedophile or Muslim plans to move next door to them..

Lol. Yah some of your best friends are Nazis, Muslims (or anyone else brown), pedophiles, people with big noses. Got it.

They are in your golf club and they married your children and hey are your baby sitters.

They make great neighbours.

Excuse me if I puke over the smarminess of your comment.

Please tell me you were joking because I am being dead serious..

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rue

[Guest]

What does that mean? You have no problems taking in terrorists as long as they don't engage in terrorism?

You don't have problems taking in sexual deviants as long as they keep their penises in their pockets?

How far do you want to go with that statement?

Yep know people like "you". They talk big about accommodation until the pedophile or Muslim plans to move next door to them..

Lol. Yah some of your best friends are Nazis, Muslims pedophiles, people with big noses. Got it.

They are in your golf club and they married your children and hey are your baby sitters.

They make great neighbours.

Excuse me if I puke over the smarminess of your comment.

Please tell me you were joking because I am being dead serious..

You're not being serious, you're being ridiculous.

I refer you to my comment in my reply to Argus. "I don't care what people think. I only care what they do."

Go ahead and puke.

[msj]

67% of Canadians agree the other 33% don't care about the country or its value, morals and traditions.

Oh good, more use of fallacious argumentative methods!

I am looking forward to you respecting Islam since they have the most adherents in the world.

[Rue]

You're not being serious, you're being ridiculous.

I refer you to my comment in my reply to Argus. "I don't care what people think. I only care what they do."

Go ahead and puke.

No its not ridiculous but your comment is. I don't buy the crap you are pedalling. You claim you aren't worried about

what pedophiles or terrorists think?

You want to go there?

You want to pull that crap that a person is only dangerous once they commit a crime?

Profiling and managing risk isn't about waiting for a crime or catastrophe to happen, its about engaging in pro active measures to prevent it from ever happening.

No you can't screen out people accurately as a risk giving them a questionnaire, that is bloody naïve, but its just down right assinine to believe we must assume everyone is dandy until they kill or molest someone.

Profiling is a necessary intelligence exercise to prevent crime and terrorism.

Get real.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rue

[Guest]

No its not ridiculous but your comment is. I don't buy the crap you are pedalling. You claim you aren't worried about

what pedophiles or terrorists think?

You want to go there?

You want to pull that crap that a person is only dangerous once they commit a crime?

Do you really want to punish someone before they do?

Did you wipe up after yourself?

Edited September 30, 2016 by bcsapper

[msj]

You want to pull that crap that a person is only dangerous once they commit a crime?

Full blown Minority Report here or what?

[Rue]

Oh good, more use of fallacious argumentative methods!

I am looking forward to you respecting Islam since they have the most adherents in the world.

Why do you assume he does not? Why do you engage in a fallacious argument but tell him not to?

[Rue]

Do you really want to punish someone before they do?

Did you wipe up after yourself?

I am talking about risk management and profiling potential terrorists, pedophiles, and criminals.

Counter intelligence, pro active surveillance, sting operations and yes police and security enforcement agencies

want to catch people before they kill someone.

Do I wipe up after myself?

No but unlike you I have washed a street and helped people put body parts in bags after a terrorist explosion.

You better hope no one has to wipe up after you.

What an asinine thing for you to say.

Your freedom comes at a price. Each day thousands of people engage in exactly what I say work long hours so you can walk around pretending your freedom comes for granted.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rue

[Guest]

I am talking about risk management and profiling potential terrorists, pedophiles, and criminals.

Counter intelligence, pro active surveillance, sting operations and yes police and security enforcement agencies

want to catch people before they kill someone.

Do I wipe up after myself?

No but unlike you I have washed a street and helped people put body parts in bags after a terrorist explosion.

You better hope no one has to wipe up after you.

What an asinine thing for you to say.

Your freedom comes at a price. Each day thousands of people engage in exactly what I say work long hours so you can walk around pretending your freedom comes for granted.

Your puke comment was asinine. I merely followed suit.

I'm all in favour of surveillance. I'm all in favour of profiling. If they can catch someone planning to commit a crime before they do so, then that's great.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what people think though.

And don't give me the old soldier bollocks.

[Rue]

Your puke comment was asinine. I merely followed suit.

I'm all in favour of surveillance. I'm all in favour of profiling. If they can catch someone planning to commit a crime before they do so, then that's great.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what people think though.

And don't give me the old soldier bollocks.

It has everything to do with what people think. That's why phones are tapped, emails are read, mail is intercepted.

I am not giving you the old soldier bollocks. I was dead serious.

You are way too flippant on this one but you did back track so I am standing down.

I also misunderstood your wipe up after yourself comment. Fair is fair now I know what you were referring to.

I had that coming if that is what you were referring to.

Sorry I back down a bit. I took your comments as being deliberately flippant and disrespectful about

risk management.

Sorry for that. You know I respect your posts even when I disagree.

I carry doggy bags. I can use one of them.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rue

[Guest]

It has everything to do with what people think. That's why phones are tapped, emails are read, mail is intercepted.

I am not giving you the old soldier bollocks. I was dead serious.

You are way too flippant on this one but you did back track so I am standing down.

I also misunderstood your wipe up after yourself comment. Fair is fair now I know what you were referring to.

I had that coming if that is what you were referring to.

Thank you for your last comment there.

However, I want to state I was not back tracking. I believe in the right of people to hold whatever thoughts they like. I don't care what anyone thinks about anything, as vile or disgusting as it may be, as long as they do not act on it.

It may be we are arguing two different points. I have no issue with whatever my society does in the way of surveillance or profiling to protect us from harm. I also agree with you that those who do take issue with those kind of activities should consider your words, "Your freedom comes at a price. Each day thousands of people engage in exactly what I say work long hours so you can walk around pretending your freedom comes for granted."

[Peter F]

Yeah, I don't get what Rue (or Argus) are asking for either. We don't like Nazi's. I don't want to live next to a Nazi or have anything to do with Nazi's. Yet it is not illegal nor criminal to hold Nazi beliefs. Therefor Nazi's should be banned from entering Canada because their beliefs are reprehensible but entirely legal. The same applies to mysogony, pedophilia and pretty much all the other things that the implied Canadian Culture and Values ordinances are aimed at. Non-Illegal activities are fine and tolerable. Its the illegal shit that really gets to me.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Peter F

[Machjo]

I have a solution everyone!

Appoint me king. I'll decide the values.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Machjo

[?Impact]

Trudeau is a blithering example of embracing Muslim religious extremists with one hand

Well, at least he doesn't eat babies like Harper.

[msj]

Why do you assume he does not? Why do you engage in a fallacious argument but tell him not to?

I use the method as a demonstration to show why it is a poor way to argue.

That is, I use it sarcastically or ironically.

[Machjo]

Let's start with queston number one:

Should a person be discriminated against on the basis of belief independently of whether he has committed any crime?

Question number two, your call.

[Argus]

Nice use of the logical fallacy called "appeal to the masses" or argumentum ad populum.

We've already seen the polls which back up the statement. The view of Islam by progressives is wildly out of step with that of the majority of Canadians.

[Argus]

Edit> I don't care what people think. I only care what they do.

This is the kind of answer I put down to ivory tower intellectualizing. It ignores reality in favour of theory.

Ie, if you bring over hundreds of thousands of paedophiles every year, as long as they haven't molested children yet and promise not to, then that's okay.

But what people DO is influenced by what they THINK. Most will not molest children in Canada, but some will. And inevitably, the larger the population of paedophiles, the more children will be molested. That is the downside to your intellectualizing. What is the upside? There is none. So you choose a policy with likely downsides and no upsides except satisfying your sense of nobility in not discriminating against foreigners on the basis of their thoughts and beliefs.

[Argus]

However, I want to state I was not back tracking. I believe in the right of people to hold whatever thoughts they like. I don't care what anyone thinks about anything, as vile or disgusting as it may be, as long as they do not act on it.

You might feel differently if you were a Jew. I doubt a Jew would think "No problem bringing over hundreds of thousands of Jew haters every year. They'll obey the law, after all."

I also doubt women will be comforted that all those violently misogynistic Muslim men coming to live here only 'think' they are filthy whores who deserve to be raped and beaten for the way they dress and act. After all, who would suspect that any of them would act on their thoughts in any way.

I mean, honestly, who ever ACTS on what they believe?