Causes Of Radicalization In Canada

[Big Guy]

Surprise! It appears the reason for radicalization in Canada is intolerance, bigotry and prejudice against minority groups.

Intolerance

And these folks who are just using "their freedom of speech" as an excuse to rationalize their questionable views feel that they are not really doing any damage. Guess what - you are part of the problem.

[Guest]

Do you really think that's it?

When you were a kid, such stuff would turn you into a suicice bomber?

[cybercoma]

Being ostracized and isolated does exactly that. Remember Columbine?

[bush_cheney2004]

So where are all the First Nations "radicals" ?

[Guest]

Being ostracized and isolated does exactly that. Remember Columbine?

What percentage of schoolkids, anywhere in the world, do you think were ostracized and isolated?

I would suggest it does not do exactly that.

Edited August 21, 2016 by bcsapper

[cybercoma]

What percentage of schoolkids, anywhere in the world, do you think were ostracized and isolated?

I would suggest it does not do exactly that.

All dogs are animals; therefore, all animals are dogs? You sure that's what you want to argue?

[Guest]

All dogs are animals; therefore, all animals are dogs? You sure that's what you want to argue?

That seems to be your argument. H&K were ostracized and isolated, therefore all the ostracized and isolated are going to shoot their classmates.

Edited August 21, 2016 by bcsapper

[Machjo]

So where are all the First Nations "radicals" ?

Different people react in different ways. Many of them have dealt with transgenerational trauma by forming various addictions instead.

[bush_cheney2004]

Different people react in different ways. Many of them have dealt with transgenerational trauma by forming various addictions instead.

Indeed, as most Muslims are not "radicalized". But the premise offered here would still require significant radicals in other groups to be universally valid.

[Machjo]

Indeed, as most Muslims are not "radicalized". But the premise offered here would still require significant radicals in other groups to be universally valid.

I'm sure that is only part of the equation. Maybe that combined with ignorance of the religion they profess for example.

[dialamah]

Do you really think that's it?

When you were a kid, such stuff would turn you into a suicice bomber?

Not every kid who grows up with alcoholic parents turns into an alcoholic, but enough do that it's considered a risk factor. Not every kid who is physically abused, physically, mentally or sexually, in childhood also abuses their kids, but enough do so that it's also considered a risk factor for perpetuating abuse through generations.

I'm sure that is only part of the equation. Maybe that combined with ignorance of the religion they profess for example.

I agree, and I think there's also personality type that might lend itself to that kind of extremism. Very black and white people, for example, who have difficulty recognizing nuances, who seek external validation through obeying rules, regardless of how outrageous the rules might be.

[ReeferMadness]

3 Warning Points

0 Suspensions

That's all?? You're not arguing hard enough. :P

[Big Guy]

Do you really think that's it?

When you were a kid, such stuff would turn you into a suicice bomber?

Do you really think we are talking about you and me? Teenagers have been seeking answers, hunting for causes and looking for affiliations in all generations. For a while, Hare Krishna provided some answers to some. Some youngsters join communes or biker gangs to fit in. In the USA, young teenage blacks got tired of being told they are not good enough so along come the Black Panthers who not only tell then they are good enough but also scare the hell out of white guys who are putting down the blacks.

These Muslim kids do not have the Bloods or Crips or Triads or ... to join to express their frustrations so they join ISIS. I suggest that most of these kids have about as much knowledge of the Koran as do the folks on this board. Young, unemployed, berated and angry is a good combination for radicalization.

Racism is damaging be it shrouded in intellectual jargon or blatantly hateful.

[Big Guy]

Different people react in different ways. Many of them have dealt with transgenerational trauma by forming various addictions instead.

Even our aboriginal community has radical groups within it. When the confrontation in Caledonia first began, an RCMP friend warned me that this was going to get serious. He stated that Mohawk Warriors were flying in from different parts of North America. Many young disenfranchised aboriginals from all over Canada flocked to the site and continue to live on that occupied land.

[Guest]

Do you really think we are talking about you and me? Teenagers have been seeking answers, hunting for causes and looking for affiliations in all generations. For a while, Hare Krishna provided some answers to some. Some youngsters join communes or biker gangs to fit in. In the USA, young teenage blacks got tired of being told they are not good enough so along come the Black Panthers who not only tell then they are good enough but also scare the hell out of white guys who are putting down the blacks.

These Muslim kids do not have the Bloods or Crips or Triads or ... to join to express their frustrations so they join ISIS. I suggest that most of these kids have about as much knowledge of the Koran as do the folks on this board. Young, unemployed, berated and angry is a good combination for radicalization.

Racism is damaging be it shrouded in intellectual jargon or blatantly hateful.

Right. So why do some people get radicalized, and why do some people not get radicalized? I would suggest there are more nefarious entities at work than a provincial charter of values that might mandate a public servant presenting a full face to you while you apply for your licence. (My disclosure: I'm against such restrictions. I just don't think they are what is swellig Isis's ranks.)

[Argus]

I'm sure that is only part of the equation. Maybe that combined with ignorance of the religion they profess for example.

More likely an awareness of it.

[Guest]

More likely an interpretation of it.

[dre]

Surprise! It appears the reason for radicalization in Canada is intolerance, bigotry and prejudice against minority groups.

Intolerance

And these folks who are just using "their freedom of speech" as an excuse to rationalize their questionable views feel that they are not really doing any damage. Guess what - you are part of the problem.

Its not just that. For Muslims in the west. They live in places where there's a decent sized vocal minority that hates them, and at the same time we are lobbing bombs around their origional countries and killing hunreds of thousands of people who could be their family, friends, and cousins.

Combine that with the fact that these are religious Abrahamites... People with limited critical thinking skills who are easily lead to follow violent conservative causes and ideologies, and you have a decent number of people that at risk to become radicalized against the West.

[Argus]

This is just an extension of the belief that criminals are criminals because of poor upbringings, or because their parents split up, or because someone was mean to them somewhere along the way. As far as Quebec's 'guilt' in causing radicalization, we should note the biggest group of violent radicals yet uncovered, the Toronto 18, had never been there.

A 2011 CSIS report that analyzed known extremists found “none appeared to have been marginalized within Canadian society,” that they had “a high level of academic achievement” and that “immigration trauma is not a significant driver for radicalization in Canada.” They were smart guys who did what they did because they believed in the cause.

As for these 'anti-radicalism' experts.

Looking at the current prevention programs operating in Canada – from which the Liberals might be plucking their supposedly game-changing expert – Dr. Wagdy Loza from the Queen’s University psychiatry department notes it’s “concerning that the staff administering these programs are not from the Middle East, and have no first-hand information about the Middle Eastern culture, values and political systems.” Loza, writing in a 2015 piece published by the Mackenzie Institute, calls them “pseudo-experts” who only have “superficial knowledge of this topic.”

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/08/20/jihadists-arent-misunderstood-punks

Edited August 21, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

Combine that with the fact that these are religious Abrahamites... People with limited critical thinking skills who are easily lead to follow violent conservative causes and ideologies, and you have a decent number of people that at risk to become radicalized against the West.

Why are we importing tens of thousands of people with limited critical thinking skills then?

[Argus]

More likely an interpretation of it.

The interpretation of the laws of Islam which I mentioned the other day are pretty universal, including the requirement for gender segregation, the prohibition against homosexuals, the requirement that women submit and be obedient to men and cover themselves, and that the world is divided into two camps, the house of peace (Islam) and the house of war (all who refuse to acknowledge Islam). Muslims are commanded to conquer those who are at war with them, and that means anyone who refuse to submit to Allah.

Look at the rules in Christiandom vs Islam. Though shalt not lie is a general prohibition in Christianity. In the Koran it's prohibited only to lie to Muslims. You're allowed to lie to non-Muslims, to kill them and to rape their women or take them as slaves. You're also prohibited from befriending them. What kind interpretation on that do you think people are likely to make?

[Guest]

Look at the rules in Christiandom vs Islam. Though shalt not lie is a general prohibition in Christianity. In the Koran it's prohibited only to lie to Muslims. You're allowed to lie to non-Muslims, to kill them and to rape their women or take them as slaves. You're also prohibited from befriending them. What kind interpretation on that do you think people are likely to make?

Yeah, but both Muslims and Christians lie when they feel like it, unless they put the religious exhortation above their self interest. The only difference, currently, between Muslims and Christians is in the numbers of those who interpret their good book literally and act on it.

[dre]

Why are we importing tens of thousands of people with limited critical thinking skills then?

Well... religious people aren't necessarily useless. You don't have to have fantastic critical thinking skills to work and pay taxes and obey the law.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, but both Muslims and Christians lie when they feel like it, unless they put the religious exhortation above their self interest. The only difference, currently, between Muslims and Christians is in the numbers of those who interpret their good book literally and act on it.

Of course...there is a huge difference....Christians (and Jews) are far better organized economically and politically to the point of developing and projecting military power to achieve their objectives.

[Guest]

Of course...there is a huge difference....Christians (and Jews) are far better organized economically and politically to the point of developing and projecting military power to achieve their objectives.

As well as lying, you mean?