Why The US Doesn't Respect us

[Argus]

I'd post a link to this if there was one. In today's Ottawa Citizen there was an article headlined "U.S. no longer respects Canada"

The gist of the story was on Thomas Axworthy's article in "The International Journal" stating that Canada had become something of an international nobody. A few quotes.

"Americans respect power, and we have not been prepared to pay for our power assets. Therefore, while Americans continue to like us, they no longer respect us. That is a terrible position for a proud, wealthy, activist middle-power."

"Prestige is the currency of international relations. Countries gain that reputation by being known as effective players in defence, diplomacy, or development."

Since Canada has no military to speak of any more, its diplomatic ranks are filled with hack politicians, and it's foreign aid has fallen to a miniscule proportion of its GDP, Axworthy's position is that Canada has become known as a "well-meaning nonentity".

"Canadian pronouncements are now often ignored because there is nothing behind the words."

An item from another newspaper today comes to mind. Canada had contributed a pair of Aurora surveillance aircraft to a NATO anti-terrorism monitoring program last month. We've just announced that we'll have to pull out early because our aircraft are too old and in need of drastic refitting.

[August1991]

Canada has become a northern Uruguay. (Do you know anything about Uruguay? What is Uruguay's position on any international question?)

Now, compare that with Australia.

Frankly though, there is no shame in being ordinary and aspiring to a civilized life for people who live here.

[Argus]

Canada has become a northern Uruguay.  (Do you know anything about Uruguay?  What is Uruguay's position on any international question?)

Now, compare that with Australia.

Frankly though, there is no shame in being ordinary and aspiring to a civilized life for people who live here.

Perhaps, but we don't aspire to being ordinary, and all our politicians, and media and academic elite keep insisting we're a major, influential world leader.

[Big Blue Machine]

A person said to me, if USA went to war with Canada, all the other countries in the world would help us win. Funny, and it's probably true. Which is good.

[Argus]

A person said to me, if USA went to war with Canada, all the other countries in the world would help us win. Funny, and it's probably true. Which is good.

Well... It's funny.

I dunno about "true".

[Stoker]

A person said to me, if USA went to war with Canada, all the other countries in the world would help us win. Funny, and it's probably true. Which is good.

Who and How? For instance, the United States navy (in terms of tonnage) is larger then the rest of the worlds navies combined........

Also, many modern (Western) militaries rely on GPS.......who controls the satilites?

[Stoker]

As for respect, it's earned not given. Do we really deserve their respect to any great extent?

[Hawk]

Nobody would come to Canada's aid, because:

1) We would be conquered within a day

2) Even if we managed to hold out for a few days, the rest of the world would wait for 'UN approval' before doing anything.. the USA would veto everything, and since no nation on the planet except the USA dares to 'disobey' the UN we would be dead =p

[Big Blue Machine]

Everyone else in the world respected us more than the US for sure. I'm totally sure of that.

[Hawk]

Everyone else in the world respected us more than the US for sure. I'm totally sure of that.

I would have to disagree, the rest of the world may not like the Americans as much as they like us.. but they have alot more respect for the USA than they do for Canada, and you may want to be 'liked' but I definitely prefer respected

All we have now is pity status with a little sympathy on the side =p

[caesar]

I would have to disagree, the rest of the world may not like the Americans as much as they like us.. but they have alot more respect for the USA than they do for Canada, and you may want to be 'liked' but I definitely prefer respected

Where do you get the idea the rest of the world "respects" the USA. They may "FEAR" the USA but respect no way. Canada get much more respect and deservedly so.

[Hawk]

No we dont, and do you 'fear' the USA? I dont, I respect them. How often do you hear about Canada in a respectful light? By people that matter? Not nearly so much as the US.

Simple fact of the matter, Canada lost its' status in international politics... and I want to get it back >=-D

[caesar]

No we dont, and do you 'fear' the USA? I dont, I respect them. How often do you hear about Canada in a respectful light? By people that matter? Not nearly so much as the US.

Yes I do fear the Bush government and its vindictive murderous ways and it unfair trading practices and biased vetoes at the UN. Its refusal to pay it UN dues but feels free to criticize. You may respect the USA but I would bet that more people respect Canada's honesty and fair play in international dealings.

With the illegal invasion of Iraq; Bush and Co have made this a much more dangerous world.

[Tawasakm]

You may respect the USA but I would bet that more people respect Canada's honesty and fair play in international dealings.

I use this forum and Canadian sources to learn about Candian opinions/positions. It very rarely crops up in the media here. I don't know how things are in the rest of the world but, sadly, in Australia Canada's position is not known or considered.

Well actually its not completely unknown. I would hope that most people realise Canada is against the war in Iraq for instance.

[caesar]

I use this forum and Canadian sources to learn about Candian opinions/positions. It very rarely crops up in the media here. I don't know how things are in the rest of the world but, sadly, in Australia Canada's position is not known or considered.

So, we don't know or really care too much about Australia's position. Your government supported the Iraq invasion but the people didn't. As one of your country men said "It's the USA money" that swayed them.

As for the respect of the USA; I and many of my fellow Canadians do not need or want respect from a nation whose government is so out of control. When they finally realize that the invasion of Iraq was a big mistake and extremely bad timing and that it has spread terrorism not made the USA more secure; maybe Canadians can forgive the senseless bullying and shake hands with our neighbours and work towards a better relationship. The American dollar is sinking like a rock. Their government is hated world wide. Respect????? No fear of invasions or more likely economic retaliation. (Which we have already felt) When the USA starts respecting international agreements; perhaps they will regain our trust and respect.

[Tawasakm]

caesar, I hope you take my remarks in context. I'm not belittling Canada's position - I certainly care.

I was responding to this remark:

You may respect the USA but I would bet that more people respect Canada's honesty and fair play in international dealings.

I don't know about the rest of the world but you shouldn't necessarily count on it here. I would assume many parts of the world are the same.

My point, which I didn't elaborate correctly, is that considering that many in the world may not pay enough attention to Canada to understand where it is coming from, then you shouldn't read too much into the viewpoints or 'respect' of those nations/people. You should accord your own nation respect yourselves.

Especially when, it seems, you don't care what other nations think yourself:

So, we don't know or really care too much about Australia's position.

Given that many in other countries will reflect your attitude you shouldn't be making such a point of:

I would bet that more people respect Canada's honesty and fair play in international dealings.

[caesar]

I don't know about the rest of the world but you shouldn't necessarily count on it here. I would assume many parts of the world are the same.

Do you think I or many of our fellow Canadians respect the Australian government's decision to support Bush in the invasion of Iraq? My understanding is that the people really did not support this invasion. Australia sold out its integrity for economic reasons. Should we respect that. I am sure Canada came close to doing the same; fortunately we did not sign on.

I did a lot of research and discussion on a discussion forum for Canada Foreign affairs during the lead up to the Iraq invasion, It was closely moderated; so everyone did a lot of research to make their point not just wild claims unsubstantiated like on this forum. It is now closed but if you would like to understand the opposing Canadian and a few American"s views; you could check it out for reading purposes. I don't mind doing research when I am having a discussion with others who are willing to do the same. I just find most on this forum have closed minds and really are nto willing to really look at or consider evidence contrary to their beliefs.

I would enjoy finding another well moderated forum such as we had on our Foreign affairs discussion group.

http://www.foreign-policy-dialogue.ca/en/d...ssion/index.php

[Tawasakm]

caesar, the point I was trying to make is that you need to accord yourselves respect rather then looking toward others (who may not really understand where you are coming from) to set a bench mark.

Thanks for the link. Haven't yet read it but I will.

[caesar]

I won't waste my time with Argus or Stoker. Been there done that. These are a bunch of Albertan and/or Quebec separtist closed minded people. MY comments are from a consensus of many sources; not that simple to send sources anyhow. If you are serious and will respond with a standpoint and sources; I will try to do likewise. So far, most of your posts have just been question after question but making no stand yourself and I haven't seen any sources from you, so....??? I do work now so I have limited time for this forum that has few serious open minded debates.

So, do you believe that Australia took the high road in following Bush and Co into Iraq. Did you believe that while a country was still cooperating with UN weapons inspectors; that it was a justifiable time to start this invasion that was NOT supported by a majority of UN members??? The so called "evidence" that Bush and Co used was proven to be bogus BEFORE the invasion. Irregardless, it would still have been wiser and more prudent to concentrate its military and intelligence on destroying the al qaeda network. Finish what they started. The USA and co destroyed the goodwill and trust from many nations that did support them in their quest against GENINE terrorists that posed a threat to North America.

[Tawasakm]

Pay attention. I have stated before that I believe Bush should have staid on target with Bin Laden rather then going after Iraq. I have said before that he has things wrong that he needs to answer for. I have said that his policies are creating problems domestically and internationally. I have said that the invasion of Iraq had questionable legality. And so on and so forth.

As to Australia - I did not support our involvement at the time because I did not believe Bush.

Now that the country is invaded I believe in staying the course until there is some positive resolution.

If you are serious and will respond with a standpoint and sources

I back myself up when asked to do so. And provide sources for new topics and to back up statements.

I have said before that I DO NOT BELIEVE you read my posts in detail. I am still of that opinion.

[Tawasakm]

So far, most of your posts have just been question after question

There are occasions when I have to keep asking to get the detail I am asking for. I would not do that if you would do me the courtesy of providing that information to start with.

[Tawasakm]

Ummm caesar the link you gave me... there are 2,043 messages posted there. Could you be a little more specific please?

Uh I guess we are getting off topic here too. I apologise to everyone else. I'll pm anything else along these lines. Sorry for the fact you had to read these off topic posts.

[pryvateer]

Caesar, get a grip - do you really think people who practice a seventh century version of a great faith intend to deviate from the Quran? Their world vision is you are either a believer or an infidel. This group has three choices - convert, be conquered and pay tribute, or die. The US is doing the heavy lifting on a tough job so the weak can safely hide under the bed. With every proclaimation from the likes of Carolyn Parrish and her kool-aid drinkers, Canada loses American respect out of pity; how can such a great nation become so lost? Any country unwilling to stand up for its principles doesn't reserve respect from people who do.

[pryvateer]

Tawasakm, in response to your comment on the United States taking its eye off the ball concerning Iraq, I suggest that it is part of a greater plan.

Quick history: in response to the Olso Accords in the early 1990's, a number of American policy makers came to the conclusion that no peace between Isreal and the Palestinians was possible given the status quo. So an alternative strategy was developed to shut down terrorist organizations by denying them safe haven in supportive countries. When the Republicans came back into power and it was obvious that no peace was possible with Arafat, this strategy was being dusted off and reviewed as a potential path to peace. After 911, this strategy became US policy with the only question being where to start. Afghanistan was obvious place to start and for a multitude of reasons (UN sanctions being great rationale) Iraq was selected over Iran and Syria. With US forces on both sides of Iran and a nascent freedom movement amoung the affluent, it was believed that the Mullah's iron hand would create a revolution and change of government. Imagine the result: Pakistan, Afganistan, Iran, and Iraq neutralized. Also that would put the US on the border with Syria. Bin Laden was and is a minor player in all of this like a mob boss - the US would love to have him but the goal is the entire operation - not one guy.

Prediction: Iran heeds their last chance to back down from going nuclear or in 2005 the US or Isreal will take out their entire military capacity and use the CIA et.al. to spark the revolution. This will halt Iran's and Syria's direct support for terrorist organizations declawing Hamas and Hezbollah (sp), this change along with a new Palestinian leader will enable a real peace deal with the Isreali's.

Though this perspective would help, thanx.

[Tawasakm]

Prediction: Iran heeds their last chance to back down from going nuclear or in 2005 the US or Isreal will take out their entire military capacity and use the CIA et.al. to spark the revolution.

Thats interesting and thanks for your cogent explanation of your position. Perhaps you could comment here since it has to do with Irans nuclear development. I would value your contribution to that discussion.