Is pro-choice a rational position?

[?Impact]

The woman had made the choice to risk pregnancy the moment she decided to have sex. You may not believe it....but pregnancy is indeed a big possibility when you have unprotected sex.

So abortion in the case of non-choice of having sex (ie. rape) is fine by you?

There is no foolproof method of birth control, even tubal ligation has an appreciable failure rate.

[betsy]

So abortion in the case of non-choice of having sex (ie. rape) is fine by you?

There is no foolproof method of birth control, even tubal ligation has an appreciable failure rate.

There's nothing 100% guaranteed in this life. You eat your food, you choke, you die!

Edited August 8, 2016 by betsy

[Ash74]

There's nothing 100% guaranteed in this life. You eat your food, you choke, you die!

Just like a couple have sex, the woman gets pregnant and has an abortion!

No guarantee's in life

[The_Squid]

Blah-blah-blah....

You're all just regurgitating your worn-out dysfunctional arguments!

Bye for now, folks........

So you won't answer my question? How come?

So are you OK with abortions when there is rape and/or incest?

[dre]

Blah-blah-blah....

You're all just regurgitating your worn-out dysfunctional arguments!

Bye for now, folks........

Abandon thread! Abandon thread! Abandon thread!

Cant say I blame you after having your ass handed to you so many times. Id probably run away too!

[betsy]

Just like a couple have sex, the woman gets pregnant and has an abortion!

No guarantee's in life

That's true. You got that right.

Just like the guy who choked to death had faced the consequence of his choking........

..........you face the consequence of having sex.

And you better damn well not treat it lightly, or be irresponsible and negligent about it, if you don't want to create another

human being in your body.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

So are you OK with abortions when there is rape and/or incest?

I'm not.

The baby is as much the victim as the raped woman, and even if he's the result of incest.

Give him up for adoption if you don't want to keep him.

The fetus is a human being, therefore, the how and the why, doesn't enter into this.

If he's conceived....then he must be spared. We shouldn't make any justification to murder an innocent person.

I could just as easily ask you if you're okay about getting rid of a disabled person.

What would be the difference in you justifying the murder of a disabled person since he's a heavy burden on his family?

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[Ash74]

That's true. You got that right.

Just like the guy who choked to death had faced the consequence of his choking........

..........you face the consequence of having sex.

And you better damn well not treat it lightly, or be irresponsible and negligent about it, if you don't want to create another

human being in your body.

It is after all just sex.....

Hence taking precautions but as you pointed out accidents happen and I am saying that we in this day and age due to science and medical advancements we safe alternatives to the stone age times where unmarried women that got pregnant were hidden away and embarrassed.

Time moves on...things change. The thought of going back to those dark times scares me more than the thought of getting that dreaded "we have to talk" conversation.

We did not just sit back as a society and let people die of AIDS. We pushed for treatment to fight this plague. The world has enough of a population and unwanted and neglected children.

We all just moved on

[cybercoma]

It's not even worth arguing with Betsy on any of this. Literally 92% of Canadians support a woman's right to choose at the very least in some circumstances. Only 8% agree with Betsy that it should never be an option. You're literally arguing with a radical fringe opinion that is entirely meaningless in political discourses.

[betsy]

It is after all just sex.....

Hence taking precautions but as you pointed out accidents happen and I am saying that we in this day and age due to science and medical advancements we safe alternatives to the stone age times

You got that right again!

Thanks to science and technology, we've got various gadgets, not to mention pills, to prevent unwanted pregnancy.....and we bloody spent billions in education and promotion! There's no longer any excuse to abortion!

.....where unmarried women that got pregnant were hidden away and embarrassed.

and the irony that in this day and age, a lot of women wear their pro-choice badges like badges of honor as they commit repeat abortions!

They should be embarrassed about their idiocy! Only idiots will find themselves with unwanted pregnancy........in this day and age, of course.

.......especially In this day and age of HIV and AIDS, may I add.

Time moves on...things change. The thought of going back to those dark times scares me more than the thought of getting that dreaded "we have to talk" conversation.

We did not just sit back as a society and let people die of AIDS. We pushed for treatment to fight this plague. The world has enough of a population and unwanted and neglected children.

We all just moved on

What are you on about? We are in the dark times when you really think about it! We still live in the shadow of HIV and AIDS.

New, aggressive strain of HIV discovered in Cuba

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-aggressive-strain-of-hiv-discovered-in-cuba/

Are infection rates rising or falling?

Globally, the annual number of new HIV infections fell by a third between 2001 and 2013, from 3.4 million to 2.3 million, according to a UN report.

But they aren't falling everywhere. New infections in the US have remained at about 50,000 per year for the last decade - compared with 130,000 at the height of the 1980s epidemic.

Gay, bisexual and other men who have sex with men account for 63% of all new US infections.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34847703

If not for science and technology, most of mankind could probably be wiped out in a matter of a few centuries. At least, HIV victims are living longer now. But how many IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE still have sex without any protection?

You want a recent high-profile poster boy? Charlie Sheen.

That's the issue with abortion: irresponsibility!

Time does move on, and indeed with it, comes changes.

Changes, however, don't always necessarily mean, for the better.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Abortion is taking responsibility. It is birth control.

[betsy]

Abortion is taking responsibility. It is birth control.

So, you admit it's not preventive anymore. Thank you.

That's what pro-life have been saying all along........ that abortion is being used as a means of birth control.

No wonder we got so many repeat-abortions.

Maybe it's time to cull the nitwits from society. It's costing us!

If we're going to be terminating humans, we should start with these women.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[The_Squid]

I'm not.

So your #2 point was incomplete. You should have included that you don't care if there is rape or incest. That's actually inhuman and cruel to make a woman go through that after she's raped.

Second, the fetus was created by the woman herself. The woman had made the choice to risk pregnancy the moment she decided to have sex. You may not believe it....but pregnancy is indeed a big possibility when you have unprotected sex.

[betsy]

So your #2 point was incomplete. You should have included that you don't care if there is rape or incest. That's actually inhuman and cruel to make a woman go through that after she's raped.

Murdering the unborn (who's also the victim of rape and incest)....would be most inhuman.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

That's how a psychopath would try to rationalize it.

A psychopath forces a child who was beaten and raped by her stepfather to keep his seed inside her for nine months then go through the pain of childbirth to deliver his incestuous product of rape.

THIS is the product of your disgusting opinion and you have the audacity to claim the moral high road. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/americas/paraguay-young-rape-victim-gives-birth/

In the mostly Catholic country, 684 girls between the ages of 10 and 14 gave birth last year. Most of the minors had been victims of sexual abuse, according to government figures. A Paraguayan law bans abortions except in cases where the pregnancy endangers the mother's life.

Your position is monstrous and you don't even know it because you're convinced of your twisted morality. Even Paraguay, who's forces 10 year old rape victims to have children is more progressive than you because they allow abortion when the mother's life is in danger. You haven't even indicated that as an option.

92% of people in Canada disagree with you because your position is unconscionable to most people. It's not the moral position you seem to think it is.

[betsy]

A psychopath forces a child who was beaten and raped by her stepfather to keep his seed inside her for nine months then go through the pain of childbirth to deliver his incestuous product of rape.

THIS is the product of your disgusting opinion and you have the audacity to claim the moral high road. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/americas/paraguay-young-rape-victim-gives-birth/

Your position is monstrous and you don't even know it because you're convinced of your twisted morality. Even Paraguay, who's forces 10 year old rape victims to have children is more progressive than you because they allow abortion when the mother's life is in danger. You haven't even indicated that as an option.

92% of people in Canada disagree with you because your position is unconscionable to most people. It's not the moral position you seem to think it is.

I edited. scroll back.

[cybercoma]

I edited. scroll back.

Your edit is meaningless. Everything I just wrote still stands.

[betsy]

THIS is the product of your disgusting opinion and you have the audacity to claim the moral high road. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/americas/paraguay-young-rape-victim-gives-birth/

It's unfortunate and sad that children are victimized.

The unborn is also a victim to this. At least in this case, it didn't end in death. The baby was delivered by caesarian.

Villalba said the baby and her mother "are in good health condition." He also said doctors are monitoring them closely. They are expected to be released within three days if no complications arise.

Instead of you getting all outraged about the girl being forced to go through the pregnancy - you should direct your anger at the men who commit these crimes. You're venting your anger at the wrong direction.

You're fighting for the baby's death instead of the perpetrator of the crime.

92% of people in Canada disagree with you because your position is unconscionable to most people. It's not the moral position you seem to think it is.

Morality isn't determined by consensus.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

An 11-year old had a Caesarian section and carried the fetus produced by a rapist. If that doesn't disgust you, then you're inhuman and are completely lacking a moral compass. That you'd deny her a procedure to keep a pocket of cells from embedding in the uterine lining, under the rationally and scientifically incorrect notion that it's a human being is unconscionable. People like you forced a child in grade school to give birth to her father's baby and all you can say is "well she's health isn't she!?" She didn't die. You're right but your broken moral compass doesn't allow you to see that sometimes there are fates worse than death.

[BubberMiley]

If I were born into that situation, I would pray some busybody do-gooder didn't prevent me from being aborted.

[Guest]

If I were born into that situation, I would pray some busybody do-gooder didn't prevent me from being aborted.

If you were forced to be born into a very mentally, socially and economically unstable situation, don't worry, the same busybodies will also work hard to deny you healthcare and social supports. Get a job, you lazy disadvantaged fetus! The world doesn't owe you any favours. Oh and if this situation proves to be too much and you wind up in prison, they will be pushing hard for the worst conditions possible to harden and intensify your criminality. When that escalates they will call for your death, because they are the "moral majority".

Edited August 9, 2016 by Guest

[betsy]

An 11-year old had a Caesarian section and carried the fetus produced by a rapist. If that doesn't disgust you, then you're inhuman and are completely lacking a moral compass. That you'd deny her a procedure to keep a pocket of cells from embedding in the uterine lining, under the rationally and scientifically incorrect notion that it's a human being is unconscionable. People like you forced a child in grade school to give birth to her father's baby and all you can say is "well she's health isn't she!?" She didn't die. You're right but your broken moral compass doesn't allow you to see that sometimes there are fates worse than death.

She's healthy! She may be too young to be a mother, but she's healthy!

Does it matter who fathered the child? That the girl was raped and became pregnant of course, disgusts me.

But why would I execute the baby that's totally a victim in this, just as much as the mother?

You're barking at the wrong tree. Instead, call for the execution of the father.

Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Does it matter who fathered the child?

That you even have to ask this in a conversation about a grown man raping his 10 year old step daughter is f***ing disgusting. You should seriously be ashamed of yourself. If I were religious, I would pray that God has mercy on you for that.

Edited August 9, 2016 by cybercoma

[Smeelious]

Betsy has a point...It doesn't matter who the father is.

The mother can always exercise her choice to keep it or not.

*edit*

In the case of a 10 year old, I'm not sure what to say here actually. I can't see a 10 year old being able to make an informed decision on such a thing.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Smeelious

[Guest]

In the case of a 10 year old, I'm not sure what to say here actually. I can't see a 10 year old being able to make an informed decision on such a thing.

I wonder what the physical health implications are for a child of that age being forced to carry full term? How does feeding a parasite affect a body that is still growing or the limited space impact her body?