War Against ISIS Coming Home?

[Army Guy]

Why should the US sack a country and put an Iranian proxy religious sect in charge AT ALL?

What I thought was going to happen is exactly what did happen. A sectarian bloodbath directly resulting from a really really dumb policy.

Why on earth would the west invade to pick sides in a Shia/Sunni sectarian conflict thats thousands of years old? Especially when everything we try makes it worse?

Like I asked you a couple of times what do we do when those same countries that are living with those same borders refuse to co operate.... do we invade, or do we turn a blind eye and let ISIS do it....Why have we even thought of giving anything to ISIL.....WTF are we thinking and what do we do next time some organization with a grudge comes along.....

So I have to ask ,who should have the US and coalition put into power. Your saying the Shia sect was a bad idea, well who then....

As for the Shia sect being an Iranian proxy, you know the sect that has the majority within Iraq, one that made up the bulk of the military forces within Iraq, How did that effect the Iran /Iraq war....I mean if Iran has sooo much control over this sect why did the war carry on for so long....Maybe Iran does not have the control you think it does...

The west never picked to invade Iraq over a civil war, Iraq was invaded because of the Sadam regime, and it's actions within the middle east....the civil war happened after the regime change....Because the Sunni's wanted nothing to do with coming under Shia rule....there actions prove that very clearly, now they have no aspirations of making a homeland strictly for Sunni's.....They are involved in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Nigeria, ...on top of that on does not have to be a Sunni to join ISIS, all you have to do is embrace their beliefs, and their extremist views...and poof your in....

It should also be noted that the Majority of Sunnis do not approve of ISIS, and it's actions.....they do not talk for all Sunni's.....

And while it may sound good on paper to re draw the borders within the middle east, to much time has past, existing nations have to much to lose....

[eyeball]

So I have to ask ,who should have the US and coalition put into power.

We don't have to ask anything of the sort because it's none of our goddamn business.

Why should we listen to you is a better question.

[Army Guy]

We don't have to ask anything of the sort because it's none of our goddamn business.

Why should we listen to you is a better question.

Did I strike a cord eyeball...get your feathers in a ruffle....Well when you invade another country for what ever reason, one has the responsibility to put it back together again....or face having to do it several times until you get it right.....Here we have people chirping that the Coalitions plan was wrong on all levels.....And yet they can not explain what the right solution would have been....just that the current plan was wrong and a failure, they feel no need to explain why, it is not up to debate. It was just wrong, end of story.....

And you don't have to listen or read anything I post, you have options available to you....But I thought the entire reason for a forum was to debate topics....one can hardly have a debate if one is not willing to explain your side of the topic....one can hardly glean any new information that may or may not change your point of view without some sort of discourse....

So unchain yourself from your tree and talk, if not move along....I think I hear chain saws

[eyeball]

Well when you invade another country for what ever reason, one has the responsibility to put it back together again...

/facepalm

[Big Guy]

The rationale that the USA, through president Bush, gave for the unilateral invasion of Iraq was not to take sides in a civil war or to end the oppression of the civilians nor to topple the dictator Saddam - it was to preempt the use by Iraq of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

By the way, Iraq did not have any WMD's so it was a mistake?

[dre]

.And yet they can not explain what the right solution would have been....just that the current plan was wrong and a failure, they feel no need to explain why, it is not up to debate. It was just wrong, end of story.....

It wasn't our problem to come up with any solutions, and our solutions just make things way worse.

Sometimes is really is better to do nothing at all, then to do something extremely stupid and counter productive.

All we have done is foster the creation of a major guerrilla movement, gotten hundreds of thousands killed, and started a civil war that its threatening to become a regional conflict.

And your brilliant plan is to do more of the same. To continue a failed GWOT that has resulted in more terrorism than ever before. To keep playing right into their hands.

Edited July 2, 2016 by dre

[Rue]

We don't have to ask anything of the sort because it's none of our goddamn business.

Why should we listen to you is a better question.

1. You are not "we".

2. Given your reputation for running to the moderator when you feel insulted, your passive aggressive insult

is two faced. It also shows you have nothing to contribute in terms of debate so you insult.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

It wasn't our problem to come up with any solutions, and our solutions just make things way worse.

Sometimes is really is better to do nothing at all, then to do something extremely stupid and counter productive.

The above was reasoning that led to the holocaust and other slaughters and genocides.

Of course its our problem. Its a crisis of humanity when millions are killing each other.

Our solutions make things worse you say? Since when did you offer any solutions. You don't.

Your entire position is based on complaining things are wrong. You can't explain why they are wrong. You

can't offer in debate anything let alone anything positive. Your positions and words are solely based on

making negative remarks also known as whimpering or whining.

"Our" solutions make matters worse you say? Who i s "our". You have never lifted a hand or offered any soliution.

In fact you do nothing but make comments that whine.

You are no "our". You advocate abandoning people dying. You speak for yourself and probably those who condone ISIL on this board and blame the West for terrorism like you do but you are no "our". Y ou've never done a damn thingt o help anyone who is a victim of terrorism.

What for me makes your whining stance dispicable is that you would be the first to complain and demand things if your rights were impacted and expect everyone to support you.

This is what makes your position so damn hypocritical. You whine with zero to offer anyone else but would demand everyone serve you.

You want to write off people dying go ahead. You words show without doubt that you are no progressive in position but you are in fact exhibiting the

very words of a pampered, sheltered, self-centered whiner.

The attitude as exhibited in your words for me shows the take of a silver spoon elitist, selfish, narcissistic and selfish in perception of others.

[Rue]

I watched people scatter after a terrorist attack and saw the aftermath. For me to read from anyone that we should sit back and do nothing as trerorists

kill is the utmost in depravity and cowardice. I also think it woefully ignorant for people to come on this forum and attempt to suggest terrorism in the Muslim world is a Western creation. Its an insult to the Muslims now dying as well as all victims of terrorism not to mention anyone with an i.q. over 40.

[Big Guy]

Looks like the civil war between Sunni and Shia forces is staying hot:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/iraq-baghdad-bombings-kill-23-160703045945293.html

The sooner we allow them to settle their differences between themselves the sooner we will see peace.

[eyeball]

2. Given your reputation for running to the moderator when you feel insulted,

My what?

[Army Guy]

I think he said ....I can help you with the big words if you want.....

your passive aggressive insult is two faced. It also shows you have nothing to contribute in terms of debate so you insult.

[eyeball]

I think he said ....I can help you with the big words if you want.....

That's what you heard?

He seems to think he's in possession of knowledge that only the moderators are privy to.

[jacee]

I also think it woefully ignorant for people to come on this forum and attempt to suggest terrorism in the Muslim world is a Western creation. Its an insult to the Muslims now dying as well as all victims of terrorism not to mention anyone with an i.q. over 40.

Anyone with an IQ over 40 knows that terrorism was created by western ... and Israeli ... imperialism.

Cheney, Rothschild, and Fox News Murdoch to Drill for Oil in Syria, Violating International Law

Dick Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, Jacob Rothschild, and their henchmen have a long tradition of promoting war in the Middle East and exploiting its oil resources. The cabal formed under Genie Energy, led by the unapologetic Arab hater Effie Eitam, appears to have nothing standing in the way of their next conquest in Syrias Golan Heights.

[GostHacked]

I watched people scatter after a terrorist attack and saw the aftermath. For me to read from anyone that we should sit back and do nothing as trerorists

kill is the utmost in depravity and cowardice. I also think it woefully ignorant for people to come on this forum and attempt to suggest terrorism in the Muslim world is a Western creation. Its an insult to the Muslims now dying as well as all victims of terrorism not to mention anyone with an i.q. over 40.

Not just the west. but eastern nations as well. It's another huge proxy war between different Islam factions that have different backers.

However 'we' (knowing you hate it when people use that, so the WE will NOT include you here) have failed on the war on terror.

We do nothing and terrorists continue, we do SOMETHING and we still have terrorists continue. It's insanity.

[Rue]

That's what you heard?

He seems to think he's in possession of knowledge that only the moderators are privy to.

Lol, you think? No I only know what you've complained of about me and how you engage in insulting readers after complaining they have insulted you. That though is not the issue nor is your feigned ignorance of it. Its your inability to debate and so have to fill in the gaps with insults. I insult. I have thrown back insults. But I and the person you insult we make an effort to express and back up our opinions with examples. You do not. I used to think you did not because you were arrogant, lazy, etc. I think now, its simply because you have no clue how to formulate a coherent position of any kind and I say that because I have yet to see anything but insults or rigid stunted subjective rhetorical subjective comments by you that express disgust of any opinion but your own. You don't provide any basis for your opinions either.

I am asking you take the time to debate Army Guy not simply throw out an insult.

Let me tell you something. You label me all the time as hating Muslims and being an extremist. You don't get me or Army Guy or my defence to him.

Soldiers put their lives on the line to protect the innocent from terrorists. That means everything to me. I have seen people die. It doesn't matter what religion or nationality they were. You need to get that clear. They die. They blow up the same way. The only chance we have for their children and families is offered us by Army Guys putting their lives on the line waiting for people like you and me to pull our heads out of our asses and talk and engage in compromise. Until then the only thing from more dead bodies is an Army Guy. He is there because we are failing as humans to exercise our gift of free choice and the responsibilities that brings.

We owe Army Guys more than insults. I am genuinely ashamed in front of Army Guys for failing to have found alternative ways to achieve peace. He is entitled to that as are his mates. I am genuinely humbled by what they do and they do not ask for it.

OK? Enough. Too many insults. For God's sake man, these tired stale posts of course are missing the point. They miss the point because until you see and witness terrorism you don't get it.

[Rue]

Not just the west. but eastern nations as well. It's another huge proxy war between different Islam factions that have different backers.

However 'we' (knowing you hate it when people use that, so the WE will NOT include you here) have failed on the war on terror.

We do nothing and terrorists continue, we do SOMETHING and we still have terrorists continue. It's insanity.

I will leave you alone on this one. It was said with sincere passion. I get it and I respect the words. I think we and the East have often made things worse yes. The artificial colonial borders, the meddling with oil cartels and selling of weapons and propping of dictators. For sure. We add and make t hings worse in the name of needing to get oil. My point is however, war, and specifically terrorism have gone on in the Middle East for thousands of years and long since oil was discovered as a new drug of addiction for the East and West,

You will not get an argument from me ISIL is an Obama-Erdogan foreign policy creation and failure I have to agree with that as I agree with Netanyahu who warned Obama 8 years ago, stay out of siding with either Shiites or Sunnis you will only make it worse. However when Netanyahu said that the same progressives who welcomed the Obama-Erdogan-Morsi Muslim brotherhood coalition and his siding with Sunni over Shiite now accuse the US of being to blame. Israel warned Obama over and over. At one point NATO including the leaders of Germany, France, Britain, Israel and Harper of Canada told Obama do not finance and train mercenaries in L ibya, just help us in limited air support and let the people of Libya do the rest. He told them all to phack off. He and Erdogan told NATO to phack off.

This is the same Obama who went behind the backs of France and Britain and unilaterally offered Russia their nuclear weapon launch sites in return for a pledge from Putin not to escalate.

This is a man who humiliated NATO's approach over Ukraine, and stabbed Cameron and the British armed forces in Iraq causing Cameron to have to pull them out.

You want to blame the West sure, NATO, Obama, have their share of blames, so does Russia and China, hell even Japan for looking the other way on crooked deals with Kuwaiti and Saudi officials who they knew were financing Muslim terrorists.

However its inaccurate and its simplistic to simplhy blame Muslim on Muslim or Muslim on non Muslim violence and terror on the West or even East only.

There comes a time when Arab nations, African nations, Asian nations, can no longer say all their problems are because of the West. That's a crutch to hide their own failures.

The Muslim world of the Middle East has been fractured and crippled by Muslim on Muslim violence and terror since the religion formed. To suggest it did not is like pretending Christian states were not violent and terrorist at one point. What they did to their own people across Europe, then in Africa and the Americas and Asias in the name of Jesus was often violent and terrorist.

Jewish tribes at one point fought with other non Jewish tribes and within their own tribes.

To skip over these historic facts is pointless and too many do on this forum when apologizing and trying to condone terrorism as an understandable response to the West misrepresenting it as something people with lack of choice do.

That is a crock. People have choices. People have come from devastated, conflict racked countries and made choices not to engage in crime, terror or hatred, Its an insult to such people to make it seem like terrorism was the only choice. These people who rejected and still reject terrorism exist and out number terrorists and they need to be protected from terrorists.

[Rue]

Anyone with an IQ over 40 knows that terrorism was created by western ... and Israeli ... imperialism.

Cheney, Rothschild, and Fox News Murdoch to Drill for Oil in Syria, Violating International Law

Dick Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, Jacob Rothschild, and their henchmen have a long tradition of promoting war in the Middle East and exploiting its oil resources. The cabal formed under Genie Energy, led by the unapologetic Arab hater Effie Eitam, appears to have nothing standing in the way of their next conquest in Syrias Golan Heights.

Anyone with an IQ over 39 knows terrorism and violence existed in the Middle East long before The West existed. The terrorism and violence may have been and may have been be exasperated in the 19th , 20th and now 21st centuries by Western and Eastern meddling but it was not created by it.

However I know its asking you too much to imagine a world existed with Muslims without the West existing. I don't want to explode anyone's brain with that concept. Kaboom. Pow and Kablammy

Edited July 4, 2016 by Rue