Fort McMurray wildfire

Smallc · May 10, 2016

No, the Federal Government wasn't responsible for 25k Syrians, they elected to be..........they are very much so responsible for thousands of Canadians.

They are not responsible for disaster operations in Canada. They are only a supporting partner. You know this.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Well, if there are not enough cooks in the kitchen then it does spoil the buffet.

That's true. I guess it depends how hot.

msj · May 10, 2016

Just noticed I got post #300!

THIS ... IS ... MAPLELEAF FORUMS!!! [kicks someone into a bottomless pit].

Ok, time for bed now..... Good night to all, and yes, even Derek...

Edited May 10, 2016 by msj

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

Dead people do not need resources and provisions for an extended period of time. The Syrian refugee point is relevant if Canadian citizens are short changed in this disaster, relief, and recovery effort with the refusal of outside help. I think the Canadian term is..."bad optics".

Nothing says bad optics like people packed tightly with the flu.....

BC_chick · May 10, 2016

Simple, to contrast the treatment of Syrians refugees with what amounts to Albertian refugees.........if we have a standard for the Syrians, one that offers a modest measure of privacy and dignity, including proper sanitary/health measures, why isn't the like afforded to Canadians that are currently head-toe in a big concrete barn, with the flu racing through the group.......we don't even treat prisoners like that.

I'm disgusted..........where is Trudeau? Why isn't he visiting these people stuffed into an industrial size barn, after probably losing near everything they own, stuffed in tighter than cattle and now with the screaming shits racing through the lot?

Anyone with an ounce of self respect should be embarrassed to see families with small kids stuffed into a barn like that.

Why do we have money for anything else if we have it for the refugees? Why do we have homeless? Living poor? People without jobs? People living off $700 welfare cheques? Old people eating cat food?

There is a disconnect here, we accepted the refugees as part of our commitment to the world community and as far as I recall there was no condition for it such as doing so only if every other Canadian X conditions.

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

They are not responsible for disaster operations in Canada. They are only a supporting partner. You know this.

No, as cited, after the funding formula is reached, the Feds are much so responsible........if they elect to stuff sick Canadians into a barn with old cots, I'd very much so expect it to be discussed.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

No, as cited, after the funding formula is reached, the Feds are much so responsible........if they elect to stuff sick Canadians into a barn with old cots, I'd very much so expect it to be discussed.

The Alberta government makes the decisions. Ottawa simply foots the bill. You, again, know this.

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

Why do we have money for anything else if we have it for the refugees? Why do we have homeless? Living poor? People without jobs? People living off $700 welfare cheques? Old people eating cat food?

There is a disconnect here, we accepted the refugees as part of our commitment to the world community and as far as I recall there was no condition for it such as doing so only if every other Canadian X conditions.

Ahh but think about yourself..........would you put your kids into the basement or the back shed so a couple of homeless people or unemployed could sleep in their beds? Of course you wouldn't, neither would I.

Apply that to my prior point, if we're willing as a society to accept refugees as global citizens, well treating them in what one would consider a humane manner and providing them with essentials and some measure of privacy/comfort, we should provide as a same standard that to those displaced by this natural disaster........not to a lesser extent.

jacee · May 10, 2016

They are keeping thousands of Canadians in the expo center in Northlands.......that's concrete floors meant for cattle/RVs/Boats, not families crammed in suffering from a virus from the unsanitary conditions......and its safe to assume, these Canadians were the low income earners in Fort Mac without anywhere else to go.......

There is no reason these people couldn't be put up in the modest hotels by the Edmonton airport.......it was done for Syrians, it should be done for Canadians that just lost everything in one of the biggest disasters in our nations history....

30,000 people arrived in Edmonton with no warning, no lead time for planning.

I think it's safe to assume all hotel/motel beds are filled.

They are doing a fine job.

And they will continue to assess people's needs including temporary and permanent housing.

Most will be able to go home once services are restored.

You are using this emergency to smear refugees, Derek?

Pretty low.

And you don't even know the facts:

Yes there are 30,000 in Edmonton.

Did you check if the hotels are full?

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Edited May 10, 2016 by jacee

msj · May 10, 2016

But you obviously appreciate the expediency factor involved.

For those who don't I suppose we should have just not evacuated people until the front desk rings to say housekeeping has the room ready?

cybercoma · May 10, 2016

No, but then they are busy.......Trudeau met with Alex Trebek last week to try and get Canadians back on Jeopardy.

So put 2 and 2 together, Derek. If Trudeau denied foreign aid when it was needed, you don't think the New Democrats would be all over him for that? More importantly, you don't think if Ottawa shafted Alberta, their government wouldn't be all over that? You don't think the fire fighters, who have all the public sympathy in the world, would say something about it in order to pressure Trudeau into going back and accepting the help if they need it?

I swear, it's like critical thinking is at a premium when you're drinking the blue koolaid.

cybercoma · May 10, 2016

And that's the point, Trudeau is in Ottawa....

We already talked about this. He should be in Alberta getting a photo op doing a rain dance. I agree with you there. Or maybe he could hold a garden hose. Being in Ottawa at his office is definitely not the place for him. A hotel room in Edmonton is probably better.

Edited May 10, 2016 by cybercoma

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

And you don't even know the facts:

Yes there are 30,000 in Edmonton.

Did you check if the hotels are full?

Here some facts of interest:

http://globalnews.ca/video/2689073/city-of-edmonton-has-welcomed-an-estimated-14750-fort-mcmurray-evacuees

From the video, there are 14,750 attended people at the Northlands facility in Edmonton however only 11,000 are registered using the evacuee services which include feeding them. More importantly, there are only 600 cots set up for people to sleep there. The vast majority have a place to sleep but don't want to burden the people with housing them with the task of feeding them.

I don't know what the numbers are at other Edmonton relief centres but its safe to say they won't be as large as this one. So we're not talking 30,000 people going to hotels but rather around 1,000.

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

We already talked about this. He should be in Alberta getting a photo op doing a rain dance. I agree with you there. Or maybe he could hold a garden hose. Being in Ottawa at his office is definitely not the place for him. A hotel room in Edmonton is probably better.

I can agree that he shouldn't be visiting the fire area do to the risk but why can't he be visiting the relief centers where the actually evacuees are?

cybercoma · May 10, 2016

Notley agreeing or not is not an explanation. Nice try though.

Of course it's an explanation. If the federal government was screwing over Alberta of all places, you don't think the Albertan government would jump all over that? Especially an NDP government, who would love nothing more than to see the Liberals fail. That's not to mention, as I did earlier, of the firefighters who are national heroes at the moment. If they needed the help they would just have to criticize Trudeau publicly to get him to act. He would have so much foreign assistance here, it would look like a United Nations meeting.

cybercoma · May 10, 2016

Yeah, you are actually. It's okay, most people are. I'm certainly more ignorant than the people with far more years of training and experience, though I do have some idea in this particular case (a very small idea)

There's two kinds of people in this thread. Those who defer to the experience of the people on the ground and those who are kicking around a political football because they think they know better.

cybercoma · May 10, 2016

I can agree that he shouldn't be visiting the fire area do to the risk but why can't he be visiting the relief centers where the actually evacuees are?

For what? Photo ops? That's what you would be calling it if he did that.

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

For what? Photo ops? That's what you would be calling it if he did that.

I agree that people would say it...just like they said that about Harper when he arrived in Kelowna for their fires.

However, a good leader perhaps does what's right and not what's feared on social media.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

I agree that people would say it...just like they said that about Harper when he arrived in Kelowna for their fires.

However, a good leader perhaps does what's right and not what's feared on social media.

Him being there during an active evacuation wouldn't help much of anything. Since that's now over I'd expect he'll visit soon.

jacee · May 10, 2016

Here some facts of interest:

http://globalnews.ca/video/2689073/city-of-edmonton-has-welcomed-an-estimated-14750-fort-mcmurray-evacuees

From the video, there are 14,750 attended people at the Northlands facility in Edmonton however only 11,000 are registered using the evacuee services which include feeding them. More importantly, there are only 600 cots set up for people to sleep there. The vast majority have a place to sleep but don't want to burden the people with housing them with the task of feeding them.

I don't know what the numbers are at other Edmonton relief centres but its safe to say they won't be as large as this one. So we're not talking 30,000 people going to hotels but rather around 1,000.

Did you check whether the hotels are full?

Lots of people from Fort Mac have the means to house and feed themselves.

.

jacee · May 10, 2016

I agree that people would say it...just like they said that about Harper when he arrived in Kelowna for their fires.

However, a good leader perhaps does what's right and not what's feared on social media.

Harper's demand for a photo op with exhausted firefighters interfered with operations. It was appalling, and won't be repeated.

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by jacee

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

Him being there during an active evacuation wouldn't help much of anything. Since that's now over I'd expect he'll visit soon.

Ok...he shouldn't be at the site that's being evacuated but why not at the evacuee centers in Edmonton, Lac la Biche or Calgary. What's the risk or harm or issue with that?

He has been quoted as saying he would visit in the coming weeks which may be 'soon' in our books but probably will seem like a very long time to those who are homeless and dealing with everything that's happening. I'm trying to not to be partisan on this one but I do think that's crap.

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

Did you check whether the hotels are full?

Yes...I called every hotel. We are good.. :rolleyes:

There are hundreds of hotels in the Edmonton and surrounding area. The the largest and main relief centre had 600 people sleeping there which I estimate means there could be about 1000 people needing rooms. Of that its safe to assume many of those will be families and will share a room, so the number of rooms could be something like 600-700. That's 6-7 rooms per hotel at the most.

Don't know if you remember...but the Alberta economy is not doing so well and hotels aren't booked up the way they used to be.

Lots of people from Fort Mac have the means to house and feed themselves.

Glad to see you were able to follow the math that I provided. There were 11,000 registered evacuees at the Northlands facility but only 600 needed beds.

The reason why I posted that is to show that its feasible to actually consider putting these people into hotels if we wanted to. Its not like we are looking to house 30,000 as you suggested earlier.

Accountability Now · May 10, 2016

Harper's demand for a photo op with exhausted firefighters interfered with operations. It was appalling, and won't be repeated.

.

Honestly....don't bring up photo op unless you are willing to talk about PM Selfie. I think we know who would win that argument.

That being said, the idea of photo op shouldn't even be discussed right now. Do you think Brian Jean was looking for a photo op by sleeping in a tent after his house burned down?

overthere · May 10, 2016

Him being there during an active evacuation wouldn't help much of anything. Since that's now over I'd expect he'll visit soon.

Agreed. Media interest is already waning, he'd better get on that jet ASAP before a cameraman departs. Maybe he could offer to expedite approval of an export pipeline, which would go a bit further to securing the Canadian economy and Fort Macs future than selfies and blankies for everybody.

Do you think Brian Jean was looking for a photo op by sleeping in a tent after his house burned down?

I don't care for Wildrose policies and by extension Brian Jean, but his actions are entirely characteristic of his background. He has spent a lot of time in the bush, including having had a trapline. He hunts and fishes, so sleeping in a tent would not be at all unusual for him.

Edited May 10, 2016 by overthere