Fort McMurray wildfire

Smallc · May 10, 2016

There is no reason these people couldn't be put up in the modest hotels by the Edmonton airport.......it was done for Syrians, it should be done for Canadians that just lost everything in one of the biggest disasters in our nations history....

Like I keep telling you, you're going to have to take that up with the Alberta government.

We have a disaster in which almost no one died. It sucks that 10% of their city burned down, but it could be a lot worse. It seems like the system worked and is working pretty well.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Smallc

BC_chick · May 10, 2016

Because you don't have the information on the subject. You don't have an understanding of incident command. You don't have an understanding of air control, spacing, and proximity. You don't have an understanding of the danger posed to ground crews by a fast moving wild fire. You don't have an understanding of the relevant training that the foreign firefighters may or may not have received. You're not the people making the decisions on the ground. I'm not about to question them. Trudeau would not have made this decision without proper input. It would be stupid politics.

Yes yes yes, I'm totally a big huge ignoramus about the issue. That's why I keep asking for someone to please explain to me why 100 people fighting a fire is no better than 10.

Please enlighten me!

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

You are seriously wondering why we can't put up 90 thousand people in hotels in Edmonton?

We wouldn't need to put up 90 thousand......most of the people from Fort Mac live elsewhere across Canada.......thousands more hold other properties or have friends and family to stay with.........but the thousands of Canadians sleeping on concrete floors on surplus cots should be put into hotels at the very least.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Yes yes yes, I'm totally a big huge ignoramus about the issue.

Yeah, you are actually. It's okay, most people are. I'm certainly more ignorant than the people with far more years of training and experience, though I do have some idea in this particular case (a very small idea)

That's why I keep asking for someone to please explain to me why 100 people fighting a fire is no better than 10.

Scene control and personnel safety - those things are paramount.

msj · May 10, 2016

Yes yes yes, ...

Please enlighten me!

Um, he has.

Many times in fact.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

We wouldn't need to put up 90 thousand......most of the people from Fort Mac live elsewhere across Canada.......thousands more hold other properties or have friends and family to stay with.........but the thousands of Canadians sleeping on concrete floors on surplus cots should be put into hotels at the very least.

You know what else? They're not dead.

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

Apparently there are 30,000 there staying somewhere.

.

I don't know if there is even that many.........but one thing is for certain, the ones sleeping in essentially livestock pens aren't going to be those up in Fort Mac earning the big bucks, but the lower income folks of modest means working up there at gas stations and Timmies....

BC_chick · May 10, 2016

We wouldn't need to put up 90 thousand......most of the people from Fort Mac live elsewhere across Canada.......thousands more hold other properties or have friends and family to stay with.........but the thousands of Canadians sleeping on concrete floors on surplus cots should be put into hotels at the very least.

I agree, they need our help. It's just don't understand why we need to bring the refugees into it. Why are they sleeping on the floors?Period.

BC_chick · May 10, 2016

Um, he has.

Many times in fact.

Where? When he said Goodale said so and Notley didn't disagree so it must be true?

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

You know what else? They're not dead.

Neither were the Syrians refugees............as far as I know, Syrians families weren't given the same treatment as those Albertains sleeping head-toe in livestock pens......

bush_cheney2004 · May 10, 2016

How many people died during Katrina? ...

Dead people do not need resources and provisions for an extended period of time. The Syrian refugee point is relevant if Canadian citizens are short changed in this disaster, relief, and recovery effort with the refusal of outside help. I think the Canadian term is..."bad optics".

msj · May 10, 2016

Better than given the choice between a refugee camp in Turkey and staying in Syria.

Those diseases in the refugee camps were quite bad apparently. Much worse than a bit of stomach flu.

Not as bad as bombs falling overhead, mind you.

Not that this has any relevance to this topic.

Well, other than its better to sleep on a concrete floor than be dodging embers or bombs or dildos for that matter....

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Why are they sleeping on the floors?Period.

The federal government has provided over 20,000 emergency cots, so they shouldn't be.

BC_chick · May 10, 2016

Yeah, you are actually. It's okay, most people are. I'm certainly more ignorant than the people with far more years of training and experience, though I do have some idea in this particular case (a very small idea)Scene control and personnel safety - those things are paramount.

I honestly tried. Every article I read said 'no explanation was offered'. My good friend is a smoke jumper who has worked on many fires like this, I trust his word. He's baffled by this.

I'm just trying to make sense of something very illogical. 'Scene control and personnel safety'... Ok.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Where? When he said Goodale said so and Notley didn't disagree so it must be true?

I told you why more people on the ground and in the air is not always better. There are currently 28 air tankers operating in Alberta (including those from other provinces) - most of them at this fire. They apparently can't use anymore for safety reasons. Similarly, this fire is moving so fast that they can't fight it from in front. They have few people on the ground fighting the fire, if any at this point, because it's too hot and too dangerous.

msj · May 10, 2016

The federal government has provided over 20,000 emergency cots, so they shouldn't be.

To think that I have actually paid to sleep in a cot to save money while sharing a hotel room during my university days.

Now it's not good enough in an emergency.

What a bunch of spoiled brats coming out of Ft Mc.

Pretty sure they are more grateful than what the rest of us think on these forums.

Et Tu, fellow forumites?

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

I agree, they need our help. It's just don't understand why we need to bring the refugees into it. Why are they sleeping on the floors?Period.

Simple, to contrast the treatment of Syrians refugees with what amounts to Albertian refugees.........if we have a standard for the Syrians, one that offers a modest measure of privacy and dignity, including proper sanitary/health measures, why isn't the like afforded to Canadians that are currently head-toe in a big concrete barn, with the flu racing through the group.......we don't even treat prisoners like that.

I'm disgusted..........where is Trudeau? Why isn't he visiting these people stuffed into an industrial size barn, after probably losing near everything they own, stuffed in tighter than cattle and now with the screaming shits racing through the lot?

Anyone with an ounce of self respect should be embarrassed to see families with small kids stuffed into a barn like that.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

I have a bit of training in this area (workplace safety and health 8 month certificate, fire department management, ICS 100, licensed fire works assistant, propane dispensation). Under the safety management system, the worker (in this case the fire fighter) is the most important person. The property and even the lives that they are trying to save are secondary. More people in a fast moving wildfire would be less than helpful.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Smallc

msj · May 10, 2016

Neither were the Syrians refugees............as far as I know, Syrians families weren't given the same treatment as those Albertains sleeping head-toe in livestock pens......

Well, the ones who survived and made it this far have been given pretty good treatment.

What one would expect given the luxury of making refugees wait back in refugee camps while logistics get sorted.

Imagine leaving Ft. MCC people in the city while it burns as things get sorted for months. As people argue over whether we should accept 25,000 or zero of them into the rest of the country.

Maybe then you will appreciate how stupid the rest of us think your comparison is.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Simple, to contrast the treatment of Syrians refugees with what amounts to Albertian refugees

The federal government is not responsible for the Alberta refugees.

I'm disgusted..........where is Trudeau? Why isn't he visiting these people stuffed into an industrial size barn, after probably losing near everything they own, stuffed in tighter than cattle and now with the screaming shits racing through the lot?

I believe the active evacuation operation finished yesterday. I'd expect a visit soon.

Anyone with an ounce of self respect should be embarrassed to see families with small kids stuffed into a barn like that.

I bet they're happy to be alive.

Smallc · May 10, 2016

Imagine leaving Ft. MCC people in the city while it burns as things get sorted for months. As people argue over whether we should accept 25,000 or zero of them into the rest of the country.

Wait, you can't go anywhere yet! Your room at the Super 8 isn't ready.

msj · May 10, 2016

I bet they're happy to be alive.

But they would be happier in a Hilton, no?

Amirite or amirite?

Smallc · May 10, 2016

But they would be happier in a Hilton, no?

It depends - do they have one of those crappy continental breakfasts, or something hot?

Derek 2.0 · May 10, 2016

The federal government is not responsible for the Alberta refugees.

No, the Federal Government wasn't responsible for 25k Syrians, they elected to be..........they are very much so responsible for thousands of Canadians.