Offshore investments

[jacee]

The 1% do carry their weight. They spend more, invest more, save more in the bank, and hire employees.

As long as they're paying all their taxes.

Rich people putting money in offshore accounts is what happens when people like you play the class warfare game and feel sorry for yourself.

You blaming us because wealthy people cheat on their taxes?

That's rich.

We're the ones carrying their tax burden.

I hope they like their health care we pay for. ?

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[blueblood]

As long as they're paying all their taxes.

You blaming us because wealthy people cheat on their taxes?

That's rich.

We're the ones carrying their tax burden.

I hope they like their health care we pay for. ?

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How many people do you employ?? How many businesses do you invest in? Theres more to helping people and contributing to society than paying taxes.

If you guys keep up the class warfare, the rich people take their ball and go home. Happens all the time and as evidenced by the offshore accounts. What would be even worse than that is if the class warfare got to a point when the rich just say piss on it and take it out of banks. It is far easier to offer a lower flatter tax rate and have compliance than have these shell games.

[Bryan]

If you want to learn more about how to specifically evade taxes despite the rule in the Income Tax Act that if you are a Canadian resident for tax purposes then you must report all of your worldwide income (pretty broad rule, no?) then seek that advice yourself.

Do some Canadian tax lawyers disagree with the very narrow way that you are defining the management of offshore assets? Yes or no?

[msj]

Do some Canadian tax lawyers disagree with the very narrow way that you are defining the management of offshore assets? Yes or no?

I have no idea. Why don't you go hire one and ask?

[Bryan]

I have no idea.

That's what I thought.

[jacee]

How many people do you employ?? How many businesses do you invest in? Theres more to helping people and contributing to society than paying taxes.

You can do more, but taxes are required.

If you guys keep up the class warfare, the rich people take their ball and go home. Happens all the time and as evidenced by the offshore accounts. What would be even worse than that is if the class warfare got to a point when the rich just say piss on it and take it out of banks. It is far easier to offer a lower flatter tax rate and have compliance than have these shell games.

You can choose a life of crime.

It doesn't matter where you keep it.

Even under your mattress you are still required to report income to Revenue Canada.

It's quite funny that you call it 'class warfare' when the issue is paying legally required taxes.

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[jacee]

Do some Canadian tax lawyers disagree with the very narrow way that you are defining the management of offshore assets? Yes or no?

It is up to you to report your income to Revenue Canada.

Tax evasion is a crime.

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[blueblood]

You can do more, but taxes are required.

You can choose a life of crime.

It doesn't matter where you keep it.

Even under your mattress you are still required to report income to Revenue Canada.

It's quite funny that you call it 'class warfare' when the issue is paying legally required taxes.

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What im saying is that when the tax rates are too high it creates incentive for rich people to look into ways legal and/or not to try and keep as much money they earn as possible.

Its class warfare trying to gouge rich people with high tax rates providing them incentive to go offshore when they can pay a lower simplified tax rate in the first place so that tax money actualy gets paid

[jacee]

What im saying is that when the tax rates are too high it creates incentive for rich people to look into ways legal and/or not to try and keep as much money they earn as possible.

Its class warfare trying to gouge rich people with high tax rates providing them incentive to go offshore when they can pay a lower simplified tax rate in the first place so that tax money actualy gets paid

The ones who cheat are going to cheat regardless of the tax rate, imo.

Crime is a choice.

Then they mooch off the rest of us for their health care, etc., of course.

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Edited April 10, 2016 by jacee

[blueblood]

The ones who cheat are going to cheat regardless of the tax rate, imo.

Crime is a choice.

Then they mooch off the rest of us for their health care, etc., of course.

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If theyre rich, theyre paying to go to the front of the line and for beat care their money can buy.

A lower flatter tax rate without loopholes would be easier to have compliance than what we have now

[msj]

That's what I thought.

How would I know what every tax lawyer in Canada thinks? No, seriously, that is just plain stupid.

But I do know what section 2 and 3 of the Income tax Act states: if you are resident in Canada you pay income tax as a resident on the income you earn inside and outside of Canada (i.e. worldwide income).

I also know that if you own more than 10% of the shares of a foreign corporation then it is an affiliate and you must report that income on your Canadian tax return.

If you are a beneficiary or are indebted to a foreign trust then you must report that income.

Etc etc.

Yes, there are ways to make transactions complicated: from the simple series of management fees until the fee just no longer appears as revenue anymore (it shows as an expense in one company, then revenue in another, then as an expense in that company and revenue in another and then it just mysteriously disappears somewhere) to transfer pricing to thin capitalization rules.

The point remains, however, that the reason one sets up an anonymous offshore corporation through Panama/Delaware/British Virgin Islands etc is to hide income and assets from someone.

Sometimes it's for privacy and perfectly legitimate.

Sometimes it's a backup plan for some African dictator who wants to own a $20 million condo in Manhattan in case he needs to flee a coup.

Most times it is to keep taxes down.

At the very least the CRA should target those 350 names that have come out and do some due diligence to then take a run at, say, the top 100 or so.

And they need to publicize this.

Nail them hard and use them as an example for what happens to people who refuse to understand the basic concept that if you earn income inside or outside of Canada then it is taxed in Canada and if you don't like that then why not move away from Canada?

[jacee]

If theyre rich, theyre paying to go to the front of the line and for beat care their money can buy.

I'll bet they go to their doctor free like everybody else.

A lower flatter tax rate without loopholes would be easier to have compliance than what we have now

Cheaters are cheaters.

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[eyeball]

Rich people putting money in offshore accounts is what happens when people like you play the class warfare game and feel sorry for yourself.

I'd feel sorrier for the 1% considering how outnumbered it is. It can run but can't hide forever and given its flippant attitudes I can certainly see why cultural revolutions become such godawful things.

[Bryan]

How would I know what every tax lawyer in Canada thinks?

I didn't ask about EVERY lawyer. Do you know ANY who might disagree with how narrowly you are defining the concept of offshore assets?

[msj]

I didn't ask about EVERY lawyer. Do you know ANY who might disagree with how narrowly you are defining the concept of offshore assets?

How have I narrowly defined offshore assets?

I have pointed to trusts, corporations, interest bearing bank accounts, just plain investments (eg. owning shares in Walmart in a non-registered account) etc etc.

And is it really narrow to define an affiliate as owning 10% or more of a corporation in another country?

I mean, would you trust 10 other people with an investment in an offshore company?

I would trust myself and my wife and no one else if I wanted to own an anonymous corporation. That's 50% ownership so clearly in the foreign affiliate zone.

Just because you do not know what you are talking about does not mean we need to bore the people of this forum with your speculations that signify nothing.

[jacee]

I didn't ask about EVERY lawyer. Do you know ANY who might disagree with how narrowly you are defining the concept of offshore assets?

Bryan, it doesn't matter where you stash your assets or how many lawyers you have: Failing to report your income to Revenue Canada is illegal.

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[Bryan]

How have I narrowly defined offshore assets?

I have pointed to trusts, corporations, interest bearing bank accounts, just plain investments (eg. owning shares in Walmart in a non-registered account) etc etc.

And is it really narrow to define an affiliate as owning 10% or more of a corporation in another country?

I mean, would you trust 10 other people with an investment in an offshore company?

I would trust myself and my wife and no one else if I wanted to own an anonymous corporation. That's 50% ownership so clearly in the foreign affiliate zone.

Just because you do not know what you are talking about does not mean we need to bore the people of this forum with your speculations that signify nothing.

You're still painting the same small parameter picture, just using more words to describe it. If that's the limit of your experience, that's OK.

[msj]

You're still painting the same small parameter picture, just using more words to describe it. If that's the limit of your experience, that's OK.

If you have more experience and want to shed more light on how a Canadian resident for tax purposes can legally get away with not reporting income earned outside of Canada despite the rules at section 3 of the ITA and also legally get away with not reporting foreign investments per the rules with respect to filing forms T1134 and T1135 then by all means tell us.

Put up or not.

Edited April 11, 2016 by msj

[msj]

And to be clear: I'm not talking about some German pension from the WWII era that requires me to phone some bureaucrat in Ottawa to spell out the name of the pension to see if it is specifically exempt from tax in Canada thanks to grandfathering provisions in a tax treaty.

I'm talking about income associated with investments: either in the form of non-registered investments such as interest, dividend, capital gains/losses, and rental income from investments in foreign stocks, bonds, real property etc or being indebted to or a beneficiary of a foreign trust, or earning employment or contract income outside of Canada (personally or through a foreign affiliate).

That's a very broad list.

[Bryan]

So you don't know. OK.

[msj]

So you don't know. OK.

Yet know more than you so, ok.

[Bryan]

Yet know more than you so, ok.

You know a lot about a very specific thing, and next to nothing about another. That's OK. I still love you.

[msj]

You know a lot about a very specific thing, and next to nothing about another. That's OK. I still love you.

Yet you can not specificly tell me what I don't know because you don't know so, ok.

This is like the atheist and the true believer:

TB: God is real.

Atheist: no he ain't. Provide proof that he exists.

TB: prove he doesn't exist.

Atheist: I can't, with perfect certainty, disprove a negative.

TB: aha! So you admit that God is real!

Atheist: [facepalm, etc etc we all know the vicious circle that continues for another 40 pages]

[jacee]

You're still painting the same small parameter picture, just using more words to describe it. If that's the limit of your experience, that's OK.

You think if it's well disguised and hidden from Revenue Canada, failure to report isn't a crime?

Is that what you're getting at?

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[eyeball]

Perhaps the only way to get around tax evasion is for all income to be given to the CRA first and they send us our pay after they've taken their cut. I really don't care which route my money takes to get to me so long as I get paid.

If you do care I think the the old refrain, "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about" applies.

Edited April 11, 2016 by eyeball