Abortion

[RB]

It’s a shame that in speaking out you also have to rescue the female.

Because these arguments can go on and on about what is moral and what is law, I think our obligations only rest on what we owe to actual persons not possible, potential, likely, hopeful persons

In law when we weight the actions and decide on outcomes, a common sense bargain (as in cost benefits) decision emerges, here is a simple example: so people against abortion feel some kind of dissatisfaction. These attitudes are not of kind or moral weight that might outweight substantially the moral rights of the person having the abortion and hence this repugnance that the anti-abortion people feel is not recognised and not enforce in the CC.

In short, what I meant is that women operate within their rights and will continue to conduct their lives as the see fit. They have their freedom of choice and putting restrictions on their freedoms shows invasion of their rights.

Posted on Dec 27 2004, 02:18 AM

theloniusfleabag

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Dear RB,

I believe with open dialogue much more can be accomplish in discussions of how to separate procreation from sex

Condoms have been tried to separate procreation from sex, but they are not foolproof. Mind you, Bill Clinton tried to separate fellatio from sex. He tried to take issue with what 'sex' was defined as, and not even 'a wad of bills' could make Monica swallow that story!

About the separation of procreation and sex, it is my attempt to shift the lens and widen what is the definition of sex?. Fellatio is a good choice, and I am not trying to create new and alternative stuff, it is all there already. I just wonder how we can create some balance for women to still have their pleasures, and their protection, and their autonomy.

contraception: I like China’s motto “prevention first, birth control first”. China must have capitalise on Malthus theory with regards to population control policy, but what a practice though, maybe we would rather adopt China’s ways eh

Agreed, contraception is safer and more convenient than abortion. Interesting, there is a new pill being tested for men to share with the contraception methods testosterone undecanoate (TU) a reversible hormone-based male contraceptive similar to what's been available to women, as only limited number of males are using vacsectomy. Mind you I am not implying that abortion is used as contraception but is a major essential for family plan – just accept it folks.

Ok, now, I also believe that when a man usually opposes the women’s choice to abortion it is because he generally feels it’s a blacken mark, and he comes face to face with his sexual degradation. Why women disapprove of abortion is mostly brainwashing by men, but these women also exist in minority.

My apologies are extended here, but clearly also women owes society nothing.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I know two girls. They are 17 and 18, and they both had babys.

Ruined their lives. Should adopt 'em out now and get on with being girls.

[Cartman]

Making abortions illegal in Canada would arguably cause more harm and hardship than not making them illegal.

In My Life, Bill Clinton argues that the logical extension of perceiving abortion as murder is to either place these women in jail for life or to face the death penalty. He goes on to say that even those who blow up abortion clinics generally do so, apparently, when nobody is present.

[Digby]

Makes you wonder who we aborted !

I don't know figgures on Canada , but i heard America has aborted 33,000,000 babies .

My guess would be 33,000,000 faithfull flag waveing americans . To make up the gap so they can keep their economy going with the baby bomers heading into old age they open their door 's .

But they got liberals too , and they say only open our doors to minorities . So next thing you know america needs a department of homeland security to protect it from Americans that would burn their own flag .

I was in LA a while ago and a old black guy came up too me and said YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? was not many of us there .

Our sins will catch up to us some day , when we have to protect our selfs from our selfs . I don't care who comes , but try to get the ones who like us.

Them aborted Babies i suspect would of stood with us , then you have to ask who did we abort ? Our Wiseman? Our men of Honour ? time will tell !

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear RB,

In short, what I meant is that women operate within their rights and will continue to conduct their lives as the see fit. They have their freedom of choice and putting restrictions on their freedoms shows invasion of their rights.

While I am pro-choice, there are conflicting arguments for and against, that rattle in my brain from time to time. Here is a good one against...

Abortion is ultimately, in most cases (though not exclusively), is evading responsibility for one's action. If a man and woman choose to have sex, knowing that they run the risk of pregnancy, they are, in effect, 'rolling the dice' as to the outcome.

Just imagine if you took say, a pair of dice and labelled the outcome accordingly, with reality. Ok, roll...

snake eyes, the guy is a serial killer

2. you contract HIV.

3. good sex but contract lesser STD

4. woman gets pregnant

5.woman gets pregnant

6-8. Good sex, no side effects

9-10. not great sex, and you wish the other person would stop calling

11. you end up marrying this person

boxcars, you decided on just fellatio and only contract a single bloodshot eye

Now, why is 'murder' an acceptable 'out' in only the pregnancy rolls? If you roll the dice, there are strange and wacky consequences, and everybody should accept them. It is somewhat hypocritical to say.."Ill accept the results if I win, but I'll seek to negate my responsibility to pay if I lose".

[Black Dog]

Makes you wonder who we aborted !

I don't know figgures on Canada , but i heard America has aborted 33,000,000 babies .

My guess would be 33,000,000 faithfull flag waveing americans . To make up the gap so they can keep their economy going with the baby bomers heading into old age they open their door 's .

But they got liberals too , and they say only open our doors to minorities . So next thing you know america needs a department of homeland security to protect it from Americans that would burn their own flag .

I was in LA a while ago and a old black guy came up too me and said YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? was not many of us there .

Our sins will catch up to us some day , when we have to protect our selfs from our selfs . I don't care who comes , but try to get the ones who like us.

Them aborted Babies i suspect would of stood with us , then you have to ask who did we abort ? Our Wiseman? Our men of Honour ? time will tell !

Our Hitler?

Gee Digby, what about abortion for non-christian, non-English speakers? Would that be okay by you? 'cause from the tone of your post, that would seem to be the direction you're heading.

[shackwacky]

But they got liberals too , and they say  only open our doors  to minorities . So next thing you know  america  needs a  department of homeland security  to protect it  from Americans  that would burn their own flag .

I was in LA  a while ago and a old black guy came up too me  and  said  YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?  was not many of us there .

  Our sins will catch up to us some day , when we have to protect  our selfs  from our selfs . I don't care  who comes , but try to get the ones who like us.

Them aborted Babies i suspect  would of  stood with us , then  you have to ask  who did we abort ?    Our Wiseman?  Our men of Honour  ?  time will tell !

Holy Crap. And yet it's been said that it's posters like me who mess things up for the more intelligent around here.

[Digby]

if you don't think aborting 32,000,000 babies and replaceing them with other peoples children made a difference to our future you just watch the times ahead

[Black Dog]

if you don't think aborting 32,000,000 babies and replaceing them with other peoples children made a difference to our future you just watch the times ahead

And who were those "other people"? Untermenchen?

[Digby]

other people= People that have been brainwashed to hate the west . hate america ect. Just coming for the blessing.

The streets are full of them , i travel a little

I had an eye witness tell me that on Sept 11 a few years back in a university class room in california 1/2 the class got up an cheered.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I guess the Bushites better trump up some lies to support the invasion and military occupation of California!

[Digby]

California is already invaded .

I just got back from 2 months there .

had to hire a translator to talk to my crew only 1 could speak english .

Over a shot of rum they told me how they felt , California was Mexican!

And the nicaraguan i had aboard , he told me how he felt about white americans .

[Black Dog]

I had an eye witness tell me that on Sept 11 a few years back in a university class room in california 1/2 the class got up an cheered

Sounds like bullshit to me.

[Slavik44]

California is already invaded .

I just got back from 2 months there .

had to hire a translator to talk to my crew only 1 could speak english .

Over a shot of rum they told me how they felt , California was Mexican!

And the nicaraguan i had aboard , he told me how he felt about white americans .

You mean they told your translator, because they don't speak englsih, remember...

A while back you made comments that God would be ashamed of christians or christianity today (or something along that lines) and after reading some of your comments I would have to agree, now maybe you just skipped over the chapter put perhpas you could go read Matthew chapter five, and because you may be alergic to the dust on your bible, here is a link

[Digby]

I read Mathew 5

what am i suppose to add your interpretation to it to get this message you want me to get?

As far as the story about sept 11th it was told to me online by a man who said he witnessed it . If its not true i never made it up .

But i can tell you i did just get back from 2 months captaining a fishing vessel with a 8 man crew and i did learn how some think .

I did have a translator hired , the translator was a lisbean (for all you who think i hate Gay people) she was also our cook .

I actually gave the vessel up because of the Language barrier and because of the abuse of drugs around the area.

[daniel]

I doubt this argument will ever take place in a SSM.

[WageSlave]

California is already invaded .

I just got back from 2 months there .

had to hire a translator to talk to my crew only 1 could speak english .

Over a shot of rum they told me how they felt , California was Mexican!

North America was invaded hundereds of years ago. The genocide caused by the europeans completely destroyed the native cultures. Now the poverty you place their spanish speaking decendants in causes thier numbers to baloon, and you call it an invasion! :angry:

SCUM

[Digby]

Actually I liked the mexicans ,it was just a little scarry how they talked about who should own california .

Most of them was real Good people ,good moral s and most never did drugs .But if a conflict ever came up against mexico i know who side they was on.

I also had a couple from peru and one from nicaragua . The nigeraugaun was Racist but i guess their is no such thing as a non White Raceist (I Forgot) .

And i like how you blame only Europeans for all the worlds troubles , i Guess native bands all lived in peace before the europeans came or did they?

Racism only comes in one colour in this world today White .Its the only way i ever hear tell of it .

[WageSlave]

Of course racism and racialism are both wrong, but a fact is a fact. The fact is, that the white-male power structure has created these problems. To consider a bunch of mexicans in california an invasion is just plain racist.

[Digby]

This Started over abortion , i was making the Statement that america would have future problems because of the abortions committed their 33,000,000

the problem is this Gap had to be filled as baby boomers was getting old , so the doors was opened .

I have no problem with any race , but facts are facts . america fights wars . they are now filling full of people that blame white males for every thing on this earth that has ever gone wrong. in the future i think this missing bunch of children will lead to serrious troubles.

Just as troy was distroyed by a few men who did get inside her walls , so will america be sorry someday for replaceing her own children with those of others.

Im not racest , just telling it how it is .

[WageSlave]

This Started over abortion , i was making the Statement that america would have future problems because of the abortions committed their 33,000,000

the problem is this Gap had to be filled as baby boomers was getting old , so the doors was opened .

I have no problem with any race , but facts are facts . america fights wars . they are now filling full of people that blame white males for every thing on this earth that has ever gone wrong. in the future i think this missing bunch of children will lead to serrious troubles.

Just as troy was distroyed by a few men who did get inside her walls , so will america be sorry someday for replaceing her own children with those of others.

Im not racest , just telling it how it is .

The problem is that the existing power structure thrives off of cheap labour (poverty), it is this poverty that creates the conditions in which people will mass reproduce.

Facts are facts, and America is a fascist dictatorship of the boregios. This deserves a reaction, however it is only the ignorance the America promotes that keeps all people thinking in religious, nationalist, and racialist mind states.

The white man is on top, and no person should be on top. The fear that you hold is irrational, seeing as you place all other ethnicities in the same boat. If whitey loses the power, good stuff! This coming from a very european mutt.

[August1991]

In My Life, Bill Clinton argues that the logical extension of perceiving abortion as murder is to either place these women in jail for life or to face the death penalty. He goes on to say that even those who blow up abortion clinics generally do so, apparently, when nobody is present.

Cartman, I have been hesitant to read Clinton's book. (I like political (auto)biography but reviews said it was bland, boring. I feared a Chretien "Dans le fossé des lions/Straight to the Heart". Or a Kissinger ego money deal.)

Your reference has made me decide in favour of slogging through Clinton's book. If you are right, it won't be a slog.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Game on.

[Digby]

Whitey will not be on top much longer wageslave (or at least the english speaking whites) according to what i see in the book . With leaders like Martin .

The stranger that is amonst you shall rise up above you very high , he shall be the head ,you shall be the tail .

he shall lend too you ,you shall not lend to him.

we are soon entering them times

[WageSlave]

Whitey will not be on top much longer wageslave (or at least the english speaking whites) according to what i see in the book . With leaders like Martin .

The stranger that is amonst you shall rise up above you very high , he shall be the head ,you shall be the tail .

he shall lend too you ,you shall not lend to him.

we are soon entering them times

English is the most dominant language in the word, regardless of what "the book" says.

"The stranger that is amongst you shall rise up above you very high , he shall be the head ,you shall be the tail .

he shall lend too you ,you shall not lend to him."

Couldn't that also mean that women will rise up, take the moral high ground, and the majority of men will be resentful?

Sounds great to me!

You are clearly some sort of evangelical white supremacist. I am rational.

[WageSlave]

Oh yeah, and seeing as I haven't really adressed my feelings on the abortion issue, here goes:

I believe that it would be great if people didn't have to get abortions. In reality however, our society doesn't provide for everyone, let alone make so that everyone can provide for themselves. It is in these circumstances that abortion is necessary to lessen human suffering.

I love how the "pro lifers" get all in a huff over an embryo, and then once it's an infant they see fit to let it starve.