Argus Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Few will note the fairly predictable outcome of the Ukrainian election today. In a vote widely condemned by outside observers as fraudulent, Uraine's pro-Russia government was re-elected, promising closer ties with Russia. Russia had invested a lot of effort into this vote, with allegations of dirty tricks, dirty money, and economic blackmail coming efforts by Putin's people. Russia, which had a free press - for a few years - before Putin banned all anti-government media, and which now can hardly be said to be a democratic country, has been rearming, and flexing its muscles in its former territories, using economic leverage and sometimes outright blackmail to try and force former members of the Soviet Union back into the fold. Will we see a return to the bad old days of Russian-American confrontation and nuclear war threats by the time Putin is done? Pay Attention to Russia, Damnit Russia and its new missiles Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest eureka Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 The revival o Russia was to be expected and was foretol by many when the USSR collapsed. There is no surprise. The Ukraine is important to the level to which the Phoenix can rise because of its size and agricultural capabilities. Quote
Stoker Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Who says that a strong Russia is a threat to us? I would look to them as an ally in any coming conflict with Red China. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
August1991 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Sorry, Argus, the world has fundamentally changed since August 1991. For starters, Berlin has no wall and Poland is now, well, Poland. CNN has fears that Putin is trying to manipulate Ukraine. WTF? If you are clueless, Putin is no Andropov. Argus, I chose the sobriquet 'August1991' because I thought the world had obviously changed. Yet no one understood this. I also chose the sobriquet because Canadians still haven't understand the change in their own country. In Canada, the 1995 referendum was a tie. The world fears Russia is still Soviet? The world is mistaken. English-Canada believes all is normal? English-Canada is mistaken. Quote
Slavik44 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Sorry, Argus, the world has fundamentally changed since August 1991. For starters, Berlin has no wall and Poland is now, well, Poland. CNN has fears that Putin is trying to manipulate Ukraine. WTF?If you are clueless, Putin is no Andropov. Argus, I chose the sobriquet 'August1991' because I thought the world had obviously changed. Yet no one understood this. I also chose the sobriquet because Canadians still haven't understand the change in their own country. In Canada, the 1995 referendum was a tie. The world fears Russia is still Soviet? The world is mistaken. English-Canada believes all is normal? English-Canada is mistaken. yes and not all Germans were Nazis, it never seems to stop determined people. Napolean lost the battle of waterloo it didn't stop his nephew. How many revolutions were there in Russia before lennin won? I am nto sayign that this is what is happenign nor am I saying I belive it is happening but to dismiss something because you think change has taken place, is slightly niave. As you said Poland is Poland, unfortunantley Russia is not Poland it never really accepted capitalism, sorta like an organ transplant goen bad...how long can it last on life support before another operation takes place? By the way if english Canada assumes all is normal, after having two referendums, normal would be to expect sepratism is still alive in quebec. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
Argus Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Posted November 23, 2004 The revival o Russia was to be expected and was foretol by many when the USSR collapsed. There is no surprise. The Ukraine is important to the level to which the Phoenix can rise because of its size and agricultural capabilities. No one should want this phoenix to rise, not in its present incarnation, at any rate. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Posted November 23, 2004 Who says that a strong Russia is a threat to us? I would look to them as an ally in any coming conflict with Red China. Any strong, well-armed dictatorship in an expansionist mood is potentially a threat to us. As for the thought they might confront the Chinese - well, that's all very well for Tom Clancy novels, but the Russia of today is far from the friendly Russia of his novels. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Posted November 23, 2004 Sorry, Argus, the world has fundamentally changed since August 1991. For starters, Berlin has no wall and Poland is now, well, Poland. CNN has fears that Putin is trying to manipulate Ukraine. WTF?If you are clueless, Putin is no Andropov. No, he appears to be a lot more vicious and ruthless. The world has changed in many ways. For one thing, the US is in poor shape, economically. For another, most of western Europe has all-but disarmed. The poles were never counted on for much. In fact, the Soviets never really trusted their eastern european "allies" to do much fighting. I think their task was to hamper NATO by surrendering in droves. And CNN is far from the only one talking about the Russians manipulating the Ukraine vote, nor trying to use economic and military blackmail on surrounding "nations" to try and drag them back into the fold. Russia is a dictatorship. It is not a democracy of any kind any more. And Putin seems intent on recreating Soviet power and exerting it abroad. The world fears Russia is still Soviet? The world is mistaken.Why? Because it's a kind and gentle nation now? Ask the Chechins about that. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
caesar Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Why? Because it's a kind and gentle nation now? Ask the Chechins about that. No, it is on about the same level( but not quite that bad,yet) as the USA under Bush. Ask the Iraqis Quote
Knave Posted November 23, 2004 Report Posted November 23, 2004 Putin's move to control the ogliarchs and their involvement in politics (YUKOS and that bunch) shows that he and his cadre are steadily consolidating his hold on the country and trying to quash the largest threat to their continuing reign in office. Khodorkovsky apparently received the ire of the Kremlin when he made statements about Russia's future being in the "development of a free market and civil society," as well as his contributions to political parties. Not just any political party, but nearly all of them, including the Communists. His motions after to directly appoint regional governors from the Kremlin rather than have them elected by constituents - as fallout from the Beslan school massacre - is another alarming turn and a show of lip service to democratic principles by Putin.... Quote
Argus Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Posted November 23, 2004 Why? Because it's a kind and gentle nation now? Ask the Chechins about that. No, it is on about the same level( but not quite that bad,yet) as the USA under Bush. Ask the Iraqis By no sane stretch of the imagination can the US be considered as bad as Russia, or as brutal, or as corrupt. Either internally, in how they treat outsiders, or in their military behaviour. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Slavik44 Posted November 24, 2004 Report Posted November 24, 2004 Why? Because it's a kind and gentle nation now? Ask the Chechins about that. No, it is on about the same level( but not quite that bad,yet) as the USA under Bush. Ask the Iraqis By no sane stretch of the imagination can the US be considered as bad as Russia, or as brutal, or as corrupt. Either internally, in how they treat outsiders, or in their military behaviour. but they were communists so that gives them bonus brownie points. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
Black Dog Posted November 24, 2004 Report Posted November 24, 2004 Who says that a strong Russia is a threat to us? I would look to them as an ally in any coming conflict with Red China. In any situation, you can only expect a country to serve its own best interests. Evidently, Russia feels its interests are best served by re-establishing itself as a global power. It would follow that in any conflict between the U.S. and China, Russia would do whatever is in its best interets. That does not necessarily mean siding with one side or another. In fact, were such a conflict to occur, I expect Russia to sit on the sidelines and allow the two current major powers to have it out. Quote
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