Trudeau 'revenue neutral' tax changes - not even close

[-1=e^ipi]

we'd be experiencing an actual brain drain

Maybe Canada will experience one soon?

[-1=e^ipi]

But you have a higher "Human Development Index"....isn't it worth it ?

USA now outranks Canada on HDI.

Canada is falling behind.

[waldo]

USA now outranks Canada on HDI.

Canada is falling behind.

no - IHDI is the legitimate comparative ranking categorization... you are the "equality guy", aren't you? Jeezaz, the U.S. ranks 27th there, hey!

[Argus]

...and the US actually has far more infrastructure and capacity for those expenditures and debt. Canada has higher taxes....to get less.

There really isn't anything for an American to brag about with regard to the efficiency or effectiveness of their government organizations. Universal incompetence and corruption seems to be the guiding theme down there. Your governments are broken, so I don't see a likelihood of repairs to your infrastructure problems.

[-1=e^ipi]

Australia has lower taxes than Canada, and yet is in a worse situation.

Australia ranks second in HDI after Norway.

[-1=e^ipi]

Hey, let's throw Australia into this discussion. What advantages does Canada have over Australia?

Life expectancy:

Australia: 82 years, Canada: 81 years

GDP per capita (PPP):
Australia: 46,550, Canada: 44,967

Gini Coefficient:

Australia: 0.33, Canada: 0.32 (Okay, Canada has a slightly lower gini coefficient)

[bush_cheney2004]

There really isn't anything for an American to brag about with regard to the efficiency or effectiveness of their government organizations. Universal incompetence and corruption seems to be the guiding theme down there. Your governments are broken, so I don't see a likelihood of repairs to your infrastructure problems.

I know...right ? But Americans still can get more things at lower prices than in Canada. I don't wake up each day wondering if stuff costs less in Canada, or if I should use Amazon.ca instead, or if I should VPN for Netflix Canada, or check for cheaper plane fares out of YVR, or maybe get a faster MRI in Thunder Bay.

Your governments are working just great, especially in Ontariowe.

[Argus]

I think that taxes are necessary to pay for proper social infrastructure.

I agree. Unfortunately, that's not what we tend to spend our taxes on. Governments in Canada have forgotten the difference between necessary expenditures, and 'stuff that would be nice to have'. They're also lazy, and tend to bribe companies with tax breaks and giveaways rather than simply establish a proper business environment where the good companies can succeed and the bad ones fail. Too much of our taxes go to reinforcing bad habits and bad companies and lazy workers rather than on things we actually need.

[Argus]

please, cease and desist! ... its most perplexing to those challenged to actually support their statements/claims with real data... real numbers!

Not as challenging as a progressive faced with logic.

[Smallc]

Maybe Canada will experience one soon?

Maybe my dog will sprout wings. If they leave over $1,300, and demonstrated by msj....they probably aren't making that much money in the first place.

[Smallc]

USA now outranks Canada on HDI.

BY....002

[Smallc]

Australia ranks second in HDI after Norway.

Yes, and they're currently facing a very grim economy for the medium term.

[On Guard for Thee]

Not as challenging as a progressive faced with logic.

Logic is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately righties seem to be narrow enough not to be able to see that.

[Smallc]

\

I agree. Unfortunately, that's not what we tend to spend our taxes on. Governments in Canada have forgotten the difference between necessary expenditures, and 'stuff that would be nice to have'. They're also lazy, and tend to bribe companies with tax breaks and giveaways rather than simply establish a proper business environment where the good companies can succeed and the bad ones fail. Too much of our taxes go to reinforcing bad habits and bad companies and lazy workers rather than on things we actually need.

I would agree with that. I would say that our governments are generally 'smarter' than those south of the border, for this comparison.

[bush_cheney2004]

BY....002

Why is U.S. higher at all ? If the Americans are doing so poorly, how can they rank higher than Canada for HDI ?

[Smallc]

Why is U.S. higher at all ? If the Americans are doing so poorly, how can they rank higher than Canada for HDI ?

What is says is that Canada and the US, not adjusted for inequality, are statically identical in terms of the overall well being of their populations.

[bush_cheney2004]

What is says is that Canada and the US, not adjusted for inequality, are statically identical in terms of the overall well being of their populations.

So a country with 10X the population has managed to do just as well as tiny Canada for HDI ? And Americans can get more stuff at lower prices ?

Hard choice !!!

[Smallc]

So a country with 10X the population has managed to do just as well as tiny Canada for HDI ?

You mean tiny Canada has done just as well as a country with far more people, and resources? Tinier Australia and Norway did even better.

[bush_cheney2004]

You mean tiny Canada has done just as well as a country with far more people, and resources? Tinier Australia and Norway did even better.

Higher population increases the denominator. At any rate, for lofty HDI reasons, Canada offers no advantage.

[On Guard for Thee]

Higher population increases the denominator. At any rate, for lofty HDI reasons, Canada offers no advantage.

We finished #2, you finished #4. Better luck next time.

[Derek 2.0]

You're telling me that it was all rich investors that increased the population by nearly 10% in 5 years? Sure.

Ahh, yes it is.....and it is an unsustainable house of cards.........contrasted with the far more sustainable growth in Seattle, based off of something real. A middle income family can still afford to purchase a detached home in greater Seattle, in Vancouver, unless you have a rich uncle from Hong Kong, you're buying a house in the Valley and spending ~2 hours+ in traffic a day.

You're about the only person predicting edge of the abyss type stuff. This slowdown will be of medium length, and isn't unique to Canada.

The only person? The edge of the Abyss is the Canadian real estate market.......what do you think is going to happen to the market once those thousands of out of work O&G workers EI benefits, buy-outs and savings run out in the months ahead?

[Derek 2.0]

Let's try this again using some reasonable numbers (I'm doing back of the envelope here using online tax calculators as a rough guide due to the fact that I'm lazy as f^ck).

So, let's say hitops is making $250,000 CDN right now and is in BC. His taxes would be around $91,000 assuming no RRSP's and he's single etc. So net take home pay $151,000.

Let's say that if he went to Wyoming he would make the equivalent of $500,000 or about $350k USD at current FX rates (I'm rounding for simplicity here as differences are immaterial).

Rework your variables to include an out of work engineer or IT worker, that made ~$250000 in the O&G sector, and is now living off the last of his savings and severance package......... and can now make the same money in the United States.

[msj]

I'm dealing with numbers based on the OP.

Add whatever qualitative factors you like, and I'm sure it's all Notley's fault too that Alaska's credit rating is in decline as well as oil prices.

IOW, we can pull crap out of our asses to fit whatever narrative you like.

Doesn't change the fact that the OP is questionable in rationale and logic.

[-1=e^ipi]

msj, your entire argument is nonsense. Have you ever heard of the straw that broken the camel's back? A small change in the tax system can be enough for a lot of people to decide to change their decisions.

[msj]

Um, I allude to it in my posts above. Maybe try again.

Edited January 24, 2016 by msj