Trudeau 'revenue neutral' tax changes - not even close

[msj]

Again, you're basing this on an unclear starting point......hitops could very well be unemployed/underemployed, and taking a job driving a city bus could translate into a 100-150% increase in income....that is the unknown variable, and since its unknown, suggesting he is a liar is unfounded......

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to complain about a 4% point tax rate increase on income above $200,000 when one doesn't make anywhere close to $200,000.

Yes, I know 100% of $0 is still $0. Ha ha ha very funny....

[Derek 2.0]

When did I say that? I said that Vancouver was growing at a faster rate, despite a lower cost of living in Seattle. Obviously, there are other factors at play - i.e., overall, Vancouver is a more desirable city for people to live in (it is in fact rated in the top five if not as the top one in almost all surveys in terms of livability and desirability - that's in the world).

And that is my point.......there are cities in the third world growing faster than Vancouver, but that doesn't equate to a better quality of life, lower taxes or ones money going further, namely for a upper-middle income family.........

A two income family living in Seattle will pay less for a home, pay less in taxes and pay less in cost of living.

I bet their growth rates aren't driven by immigration.

No, birth rates..........and it doesn't cement your point that a middle class family in Vancouver is better off than a middle class family in Seattle. Simply put, your Vancouver family will be over leveraged, on a over valued home, in a jurisdiction where they will pay more in taxes and more for cost of living expenses........

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to complain about a 4% point tax rate increase on income above $200,000 when one doesn't make anywhere close to $200,000.

So what's the magic number ? What would make sense to you?

Obviously, some Canadians do pull the trigger and leave for one or more reasons.

For the record, I would not relocate to Canada for any reason I can think of.

Edited January 24, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Derek 2.0]

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to complain about a 4% point tax rate increase on income above $200,000 when one doesn't make anywhere close to $200,000.

Yes, I know 100% of $0 is still $0. Ha ha ha very funny....

It doesn't have to make sense........as I said, there are plenty of Canadians that were making all sorts of money that don't now, I'm sure they are complaining and worried about all sorts of things.

[Smallc]

And that is my point.......there are cities in the third world growing faster than Vancouver, but that doesn't equate to a better quality of life, lower taxes or ones money going further, namely for a upper-middle income family.........

See, this is the dissonance.

A two income family living in Seattle will pay less for a home, pay less in taxes and pay less in cost of living.

And yet more people, in terms of percentage, and actual numbers, move to Vancouver every year, than to Seattle.

No, birth rates

Completely erasing your retort.

As does pretty much every survey:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/vancouver-most-livable-again/article18249197/

[-1=e^ipi]

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to complain about a 4% point tax rate increase on income above $200,000 when one doesn't make anywhere close to $200,000.

Unless someone intends or expects to earn $200,000 per year in the future.

[msj]

So what's the magic number ? What would make sense to you?

Obviously, some Canadians do pull the trigger and leave for one or more reasons.

For the record, I would not relocate to Canada for any reason related to taxes.

It makes sense to leave for the 100%+ increase in income.

It also makes sense to leave for the 4% point increase in taxes but that's a comparatively minuscule thing, isn't it?

Let me put it this way: hitops reminds me of certain clients I have who lament the taxes they pay and want more deductions to save taxes.

So I offer them this: I will bill you $100,000 for my services and you can be satisfied with your tax savings from that.

Of course, the tax savings are $13,500 (small business corporation) so you are still out $86,500 but who cares about that BECAUSE YOU SAVED $13,500!!!!!!

So, uh, pay my bill please?

[msj]

Unless someone intends or expects to earn $200,000 per year in the future.

You do know that if someone only makes $200k per year then that person is not paying a single cent of additional tax? (I mean at the new rate and tax bracket).

In fact, that person is paying less income taxes under Trudeau.

Edited January 24, 2016 by msj

[Derek 2.0]

See, this is the dissonance.

No, dissonance is pointing to growth rates in a discussion over tax rates.

And yet more people, in terms of percentage, and actual numbers, move to Vancouver every year, than to Seattle.

And there are plenty of cities in the third world with even higher growth rates......Mogadishu is clearly a better place to raise a family than Vancouver.........and better taxes rates than Seattle too boot!!!

Completely erasing your retort.

As does pretty much every survey:

Ahhh.....nope.

[msj]

It doesn't have to make sense........as I said, there are plenty of Canadians that were making all sorts of money that don't now, I'm sure they are complaining and worried about all sorts of things.

If something doesn't make sense then it's is very likely it involves cognitive dissonance which has been my point all along.

It's been a long circle to round.

[Derek 2.0]

If something doesn't make sense then it's is very likely it involves cognitive dissonance which has been my point all along.

It's been a long circle to round.

Your're an accountant, can you properly do someones taxes without knowing their income?

[bush_cheney2004]

It makes sense to leave for the 100%+ increase in income.

It also makes sense to leave for the 4% point increase in taxes but that's a comparatively minuscule thing, isn't it?

Let me put it this way: hitops reminds me of certain clients I have who lament the taxes they pay and want more deductions to save taxes.

Methinks you are dismissing the OP at 4% without the complete context that clearly includes considerations of fleeing Canada even before Trudeau's tax increase(s). Some Canadians leave without even that much incentive, tax or otherwise.

Wanting to leave Canada doesn't cost anything.

[Smallc]

And there are plenty of cities in the third world with even higher growth rates......Mogadishu is clearly a better place to raise a family than Vancouver.........and better taxes rates than Seattle too boot!!!

People move to Vancouver - that's the difference that you're choosing to ignore.

[Smallc]

Methinks you are dismissing the OP at 4% without the complete context that clearly includes considerations of fleeing Canada even before Trudeau's tax increase(s).

The problem there is that most people voted for Trudeau level taxes or higher. Most Canadians don't want to leave for the American heaven. We're quite happy here, paying our taxes (even if we choose to bitch about it).

[msj]

Yes there are many good reasons to leave Canada.

I happen to think doubling ones income as stated in the OP is a very good reason to do so, all other things being even.

And doubling your income in the face of increased taxes is also a good reason - no argument there.

But to claim it's the 4% point increase in taxes rather than, say the 25% decline in currency and the higher income elsewhere is nonsense.

[Smallc]

Yes there are many good reasons to leave Canada.

I'm sure there are...though, most people won't.

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem there is that most people voted for Trudeau level taxes or higher. Most Canadians don't want to leave for the American heaven. We're quite happy here, paying our taxes (even if we choose to bitch about it).

I certainly believe that, but there is always noises and threats to do exactly that, even at the provincial separation level ("join the USA"). Some Americans do the same thing each election season, but few actually leave.

Some Canadians are not happy paying those taxes based on offshore tax sheltering and other scams.

[Derek 2.0]

People move to Vancouver - that's the difference that you're choosing to ignore.

And even more people move to Mogadishu.......

[Derek 2.0]

But to claim it's the 4% point increase in taxes rather than, say the 25% decline in currency and the higher income elsewhere is nonsense.

What is a 4% increase in taxes on a 200000 income over 10 years? 20 years? 35 years? That is a lot of money for a 30 something to consider through to retirement..........are you an accountant at the CRA

[msj]

I'm sure there are...though, most people won't.

Yes I agree. There are many qualitative factors that could be discussed as to choosing to work and live in Canada versus any country.

But that's not the point which remains the strangeness of obliviously ignoring the 100+% opportunity cost while focussing in on the 4% point cost.

[Smallc]

And even more people move to Mogadishu.......

For all the same reasons, I'm sure.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes there are many good reasons to leave Canada.

I happen to think doubling ones income as stated in the OP is a very good reason to do so, all other things being even.

And doubling your income in the face of increased taxes is also a good reason - no argument there.

I don't think the reason(s) are nearly as important as the conviction to do so. Canadians clearly do leave...it transcends marginal tax rates.

[Smallc]

I certainly believe that, but there is always noises and threats to do exactly that

And in reverse, for at least the last decade.

[Smallc]

Canadians clearly do leave...it transcends marginal tax rates.

And though in smaller numbers, Americans move here. I even know a few.

[Derek 2.0]

Some Canadians are not happy paying those taxes based on offshore tax sheltering and other scams.

True, and that even stands for those that set tax rates........see Canadian Steamship Lines