Trudeau 'revenue neutral' tax changes - not even close

[Derek 2.0]

a MLW search will indicate the member has stated he's a physician... at least half-a-dozen times. In this post he claims to be a specialist

.

Perfect, thank you, and that was what I was leaning towards (something in the medical field) when he spoke to treatment centers versus living in rural areas.........that makes sense now.

does that put to rest your apparent uncertainty around actual income... or rather a fit within an applicable income range that you've already been presented with?

It actually makes perfect sense (now) and what would entail such a large increase in income, especially for a specialist.

[msj]

a MLW search will indicate the member has stated he's a physician... at least half-a-dozen times. In this post he claims to be a specialist...

does that put to rest your apparent uncertainty around actual income... or rather a fit within an applicable income range that you've already been presented with?

.

Thank you Waldo.

I take it back: he probably can make double in the US.

But that just makes the alternative, that he is odd for not already moving to the US because 100% > 4%, more likely.

But hey, nothing wrong with being odd, other than being odd, of course.

[Derek 2.0]

does that put to rest your apparent uncertainty around actual income... or rather a fit within an applicable income range that you've already been presented with?

.

Further to that:

An Oncologist’s annual salary averages from between $200,000 and $335,000 and the highest paid oncologists receive about $685,000 per annum. Based on percentiles, the median salary for 90th percentile of oncologists has been around $414,305 per year. Similarly, about 75th percentile of oncologists received $343,496, 25th percentile of them received $216,837 while 10th percentile received $172,329 per year.

versus:

An average annual salary for an oncologist within the Canada ranges from C$40,725 – C$235,072 per annum.

I don't know how accurate the above info is, but it would explain a lot.

[msj]

Perfect, thank you, and that was what I was leaning towards (something in the medical field) when he spoke to treatment centers versus living in rural areas.........that makes sense now.

.

Well certainly more sense than being an unemployed oil and gas professional.

[Derek 2.0]

Well certainly more sense than being an unemployed oil and gas professional.

Wait a minute, I never suggested what he actually did, or didn't do........and (on the second page) actually asked him, you're the one (alongside Smallc) that went page after page calling him a liar based on assumption............the proper thing to do would be for you to apologize to him.

[msj]

I did ask him and he avoided the question although he implied what I thought he implied in my post on page 9 contra all the BS you have been running for the past several pages.

He is still an anonymous person on the internet so who knows what he or any of us are anyway.

The point remains: it is odd to gladly give up opportunity cost of 100%+ while gnashing ones teeth over a 4% point increase from a new tax bracket. That reeks of all kinds of BS.

Once again, this is not to deny that some people actually think this way. Just pointing out the strangeness of thinking this way especially when presented with some "back of the envelope" numbers as I presented on page 9.

[Derek 2.0]

The point remains: it is odd to gladly give up opportunity cost of 100%+ while gnashing ones teeth over a 4% point increase from a new tax bracket. That reeks of all kinds of BS.

Once again, this is not to deny that some people actually think this way. Just pointing out the strangeness of thinking this way especially when presented with some "back of the envelope" numbers as I presented on page 9.

And again, he didn't mention the 4% increase, but the tax regime in general. Well mentioning his motivations for staying here are family related..........and again, if my cited average Canadian income is correct, he likely isn't making over the 200k mark........

So your projections on page 9 are exactly that......your projections.

[msj]

Let's assume he makes $80,000 in Canada and would make 160,000 in the US in CDN.

So, he pays about $17,500 in income taxes in BC so nets $62,500 ish.

In the US he pays about $32,000 in taxes (CDN) and nets about $128,000 (CDN).

Ok, so now we are talking about this: hitops is giving up $65,000 for what?

Sure, social security is more in the US than CPP/EI so let's say he's giving up $60,000

But this is it: If he's making $80,000 in Canada then Trudeau has just given him a tax cut retroactive to 2015.

So why complain about the tax increase as discussed in the OP and given away by the title of this thread?

And, once again, I find it odd that one would be willing to give up $60,000 per year (for 10, 20, 30 years!) and yet come on here to complain because Trudeau gave him a $500 tax cut.

So now I'm calling BS on you Derek for all the sophistry you have brought about for the past many pages.

I think my numbers on page 9 are more realistic (certainly going forward for an oncologist if he is just starting out and will earn an even higher income in the future) but even these numbers demonstrate that it is odd for someone to complain about a tax cut while giving up $60k in opportunity cost.

Edit: fix the maths!

Edited January 24, 2016 by msj

[Derek 2.0]

So now I'm calling BS on you Derek for all the sophistry you have brought about for the past many pages.

I had to look up "sophistry" in the dictionary...........as you were.

[msj]

By all means show how my math is wrong and I'm being fallacious with it.

It is back of the envelope after all and I admit that I'm lazy as f^ck too.

But honestly, you do not find it odd that a person will complain about a $1,300 (or more, granted) tax increase but gladly gives up hundreds of thousands of dollars each year?

I mean really? That's not odd?

[Argus]

Logic is in the eye of the beholder..

Clearly you fail to understand the essence of logic.

[Argus]

Language and proximity.

And weather. I bet most Canadians who move south aren't moving to Vermont or Michigan, but to Florida, Arizona, Texas and California.

[On Guard for Thee]

Clearly you fail to understand the essence of logic.

Or perhaps I have a deeper understanding of it than you.

[Argus]

None of that has anything to do with what we are talking about.

What is being discussed is this: hundreds of thousands of dollars is not enough encouragement for hitops to go foreign as he would earn more income and pay less tax even before considering the tax increase for incomes above $200k.

I could probably save about $50,000 a year in tax moving to Florida. I could also probably get a similar house at half the price, or, if I wanted to spend half a million, get a place right on the ocean, depending on where I chose to live.

[Argus]

Or perhaps I have a deeper understanding of it than you.

Based on your postings, I don't believe that to be the case.

[On Guard for Thee]

Based on your postings, I don't believe that to be the case.

ditto

[msj]

I could probably save about $50,000 a year in tax moving to Florida. I could also probably get a similar house at half the price, or, if I wanted to spend half a million, get a place right on the ocean, depending on where I chose to live.

Of course you can!

You're an anonymous person on the Internet!

I'm surprised you're not already there making millions of dollars already.

[bush_cheney2004]

I could probably save about $50,000 a year in tax moving to Florida. I could also probably get a similar house at half the price, or, if I wanted to spend half a million, get a place right on the ocean, depending on where I chose to live.

Maybe....Canadians fight real hard for their rights while living in a foreign country. Their right to shop in the U.S., party in the Florida sunshine, stay for 182 days, vote absentee, keep health care, and minimize taxes. There is a Canadian organization (based in the USA of course), dedicated to protecting such rights and it is indicative of this OPs sentiment...escape from Canada each year.

http://www.snowbirds.org/about-us

Edited January 24, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

...escape from Canada each year.

and return... like clockwork!

.

[hitops]

And the bottom in the US (the larger bottom) does worse in every conceivable way.

Not really, if you compare similar groups in US and Canada, they are arguably doing better in the US. For instance if you compare whites on either side or natives on either side, the US comes ahead. You can't compare descendants of slaves because we don't have any. You can compare recent African immigrants however, and they again do quite well on both sides. Other immigrants - winning by far in the US especially groups like Koreans, Indians and Chinese.

We don't have the demographic history of the US, but our worst performing group, the natives, remain in the basement by all metrics despite the most generous targeted (at them) support system for any minority in the world.

There are other benefits to their system, such as the fact that they can always attract the best and brightest of any nation.

Edited January 24, 2016 by hitops

[hitops]

Yes, our brain drain makes perfect sense when someone can be making "100% to 150%" more outside of Canada.

What doesn't make sense is all this gnashing of teeth as if the 4% point increase is the final straw (FINAL STRAW!) to push someone over the edge.

That's just odd and doesn't pass the smell test on an individual basis.

IOW, I think you are exaggerating your own claim to be part of the brain drain for partisan political purposes rather than because you will ever come near to paying this new tax rate.

I don't have to exaggerate anything, Canada to US immigration for work is public information.

But you are correct, I will not pay the new rate. Because again, I don't sit around just let things happen, I'm where I am for a reason, and I can adjust. And to correct lefty misunderstandings, this is not because I laid around until a magic fairy floated by, waved her wand and poof! - ability......poof! - a reliable job! I realize this may be a shock to those of the NDP persuasion.

Edited January 24, 2016 by hitops

[hitops]

Treatment centers for what? Employment or your own health needs? If the later, serious conditions could preclude you from obtaining a visa.

Americans have far, far more centers with a wide array of treatments, in less densely population areas, than we have.

The H1-B work visa in the US, is dependent on the state department and a job offer.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% of those who do my job, who graduated in the last few years, went to the US.

Edited January 24, 2016 by hitops

[Smallc]

Not really, if you compare similar groups in US and Canada, they are arguably doing better in the US.

Citation needed.

[Smallc]

And to correct lefty misunderstandings, this is not because I laid around until a magic fairy floated by, waved her wand and poof! - ability......poof! - a reliable job! I realize this may be a shock to those of the NDP persuasion.

It's hard to take you seriously when you say things like this.

[Smallc]

Americans have far, far more centers with a wide array of treatments, in less densely population areas, than we have.

Right. That's a function of their (a) far higher per capita health spending (the thing that creates a cost problem in our system), and ( b ) their less urbanized country (in terms of large urban cities, not cities of all size).

Edited January 24, 2016 by Smallc