Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I don't question anyone's motives about avoiding taxes although I will have a difference of opinion about paying more tax in BC versus Wyoming which, imo, is worth the premium. Change Wyoming for Washington State if you like the Pacific Northwest......no State taxes there either and a far lower cost of living and cheaper real estate. No I am calling BS on this idea that he earns as much as he says he can earn as opposed to making things up because of partisan politics. Fair enough, but neither of us could confirm or deny that........inversely though, partisan politics that result in further tax increases could very much so lead to a choice to move elsewhere...........even a middle income family, transplanted from Vancouver's lower mainland to greater Seattle would find a reduced cost of living. If one has not already been persuaded to go elsewhere because one can earn "100+%" more in income at already lower than Canada tax rates then I find it odd that now, all of a sudden, this 4 point increase is going to break the camels back. Again, on paper 4% on a 200k income doesn't seem like that much in the big scheme of things ($8000 a year), again discounting the actual full savings which are far greater, but for a person in say their mid 30s, 8k over the next two decades until retirement is a hefty sum...... Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Give it a rest........if hitops is earning 200k a year, he wouldn't be moving to Detroit to work in a Walmart The point has nothing to do with his fictitious personal situation, but with the realities of median health and wealth. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Again, assuming hitops was married and lived in British Columbia (earning over 200K) he would be paying nearly 3k a year for MSP and private insurance for extended medical/dental.......if he was making the same, and living in Wyoming, his private insurance (assuming he doesn't have a copay through his employer) with full coverage would cost him 8-9k annually......more than offset by just the 4% increase in Federal tax rates..... And if he were making $45K per year, about the average, the calculation would change. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 The point has nothing to do with his fictitious personal situation, but with the realities of median health and wealth. How do you know it to be fictitious? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 And if he were making $45K per year, about the average, the calculation would change. Sure, and so to would a whole host of other variables..........somehow, the vast majority of Americans have health insurance and aren't dying in the streets from common colds. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Sure, and so to would a whole host of other variables..........somehow, the vast majority of Americans have health insurance and aren't dying in the streets from common colds. We were talking about the costs of that (per capita, the US system is far more expensive) as a consideration when dealing with average costs of life. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 That's true, but, there are a lot of negatives to living in American society, as well. One only has to visit to notice the difference in the level of violence, homelessness, poverty, etc. I'd rather have a few less rich people if it also means I can have a few less poor ones. And that's exactly what Canada has, as far more emigres (rich and poor) from around the world choose the United States over Canada. Why would they do that if Canada is so much better ? Why do members here even speak of going to the U.S. for employment and lower taxes if Canada offers better/fairer opportunities ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) We were talking about the costs of that (per capita, the US system is far more expensive) as a consideration when dealing with average costs of life. That's because the US system provides lots more in capacity, faster access, medical devices, pharma, diagnostics, rehab, etc. Americans pay more because Americans get more...faster. Provinces in Canada use the American system to make up for serious gaps for some procedures. Nothing in Trudeau's tax changes will ever change this...it is fundamental to differences in health care "systems". Edited January 23, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 We were talking about the costs of that (per capita, the US system is far more expensive) as a consideration when dealing with average costs of life. Healthcare costs offset by both lower taxes and lower cost of living........even Walmart or Starbucks employees get copay insurance. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Nothing in Trudeau's tax changes will ever change this...it is fundamental to differences in health care "systems". Exactly, though Americans might pay more for a catastrophic health event, the day-to-day costs of living in most States is far cheaper then in Canada. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Why do members here even speak of going to the U.S. for employment and lower taxes if Canada offers better/fairer opportunities ? Exactly........and these reasons share the same motivations as the Post-War exodus to Canada in the 40s and 50s......opportunity. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Exactly........and these reasons share the same motivations as the Post-War exodus to Canada in the 40s and 50s......opportunity. Agreed....opportunity does not mean comparisons to poor people in the United States....in fact...it is quite the opposite. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Agreed....opportunity does not mean comparisons to poor people in the United States....in fact...it is quite the opposite. Without a doubt........I wouldn't suggest a Walmart worker in Canada, moving to the United States to work at Walmart........clearly there is more "free stuff" in Canada....but if said Canadian worker is putting themselves through a nursing degree for example, you bet. Economies are cyclical, and like the 1990s, Canada's is going into the crapper again. Any young professionals in Canada would be crazy to stay if they have the same or better earning potential in the United States. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 And that's exactly what Canada has, as far more emigres (rich and poor) from around the world choose the United States over Canada. Why would they do that if Canada is so much better ? Why do members here even speak of going to the U.S. for employment and lower taxes if Canada offers better/fairer opportunities ? Canada has no problem filling quotas. Canada and the US rank almost identical on the HDI. The US is .002 higher at the moment. When you adjust for inequality, it's not as close. Canada is .072 higher with that adjustment. If you're poor or lower middle class, Canada is a better place to be. At the moment, with the exchange, anyone above that is better in the US. Two years ago, that wasn't the case. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Healthcare costs offset by both lower taxes and lower cost of living........even Walmart or Starbucks employees get copay insurance. Someone working at Walmart isn't going to pay much in the way of tax in Canada, and will likely get credits that offset much of the difference. The lower half of the equation is better of in Canada. The rest depends on the period we're talking about. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Canada has no problem filling quotas. Canada and the US rank almost identical on the HDI. The US is .002 higher at the moment. When you adjust for inequality, it's not as close. Canada is .072 higher with that adjustment. If you're poor or lower middle class, Canada is a better place to be. The U.S. has more foreign born people than the entire population of Canada. Filling "quotas" doesn't do much for poor citizens in the Maritimes or northern communities. More energy is spent fighting between east and west than on coordinated economic development. The equalization payments whining has already started. No, it's not better....do you really think the "poor" give a rat's ass about "HDI" ? Canada will always have less opportunity because of several factors. Poor people cannot spend SJW doublespeak, but they can spend EBT card balances. U.S. "great society" social programs provide more credits and tax breaks to be spent in a nation with lower costs. Trudeau cannot change this reality with tax games. Canada will still be Canada...bitching about the lower costs across the border...seen when using/watching "poor people" on so much American media. Edited January 23, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 The U.S. has more foreign born people than the entire population of Canada. Filling "quotas" doesn't do much for poor citizens in the Maritimes or northern communities. More energy is spent fighting between east and west than on coordinated economic development. The equalization payments whining has already started. No, it's not better....do you really think the "poor" give a rat's ass about "HDI" ? Canada will always have less opportunity because of several factors. Poor people cannot spend SJW doublespeak, but they can spend EBT card balances. U.S. "great society" social programs provide more credits and tax breaks to be spent in a nation with lower costs. Trudeau cannot change this reality with tax games. Canada will still be Canada...bitching about the lower costs across the border...seen when watching "poor people" on so much American media. Some costs are lower, but the taxes are much higher, and the outcomes, especially with healthcare, tend to be much worse. We have just been named the 2nd best country in the world behind Germany, so I think it IS better. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 The U.S. has more foreign born people than the entire population of Canada. Filling "quotas" doesn't do much for poor citizens in the Maritimes or northern communities. More energy is spent fighting between east and west than on coordinated economic development. The equalization payments whining has already started. No, it's not better....do you really think the "poor" give a rat's ass about "HDI" ? Canada will always have less opportunity because of several factors. Poor people cannot spend SJW doublespeak, but they can spend EBT card balances. U.S. "great society" social programs provide more credits and tax breaks to be spent in a nation with lower costs. Trudeau cannot change this reality with tax games. Canada will still be Canada...bitching about the lower costs across the border...seen when using/watching "poor people" on so much American media. And you'll still be here, in ironic fashion. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) And you'll still be here, in ironic fashion. "Here" is a server in the United States...lower cost...the best irony of all. Maybe Trudeau can lower the taxes on U.S. hosting services. Edited January 23, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Someone working at Walmart isn't going to pay much in the way of tax in Canada, and will likely get credits that offset much of the difference. The lower half of the equation is better of in Canada. The rest depends on the period we're talking about. I don't deny that low skilled workers get more "free stuff" in Canada compared to the United States.......my point, those that pay for the "free stuff" in Canada, are better off in the United States........this was true in the 70s, 90s and today. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I don't deny that low skilled workers get more "free stuff" in Canada compared to the United States.......my point, those that pay for the "free stuff" in Canada, are better off in the United States........this was true in the 70s, 90s and today. Not sure that much is even true across the board....depends on the state and head-of-household tax filing status. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I don't deny that low skilled workers get more "free stuff" in Canada compared to the United States.......my point, those that pay for the "free stuff" in Canada, are better off in the United States........this was true in the 70s, 90s and today. And yet the Canadian upper and middle class continues to have better results in terms of health, education, and quality of life. Wealth is apparently, not everything. Quote
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Not sure that much is even true across the board....depends on the state and head-of-household tax filing status. Nothing is true across the board. On average, lower to middle class people are better off in Canada. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 And yet the Canadian upper and middle class continues to have better results in terms of health, education, and quality of life. Wealth is apparently, not everything. "Wealth" can buy better education, better healthcare and a better quality of life.............Have you been to a grocery store lately? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 And yet the Canadian upper and middle class continues to have better results in terms of health, education, and quality of life. Wealth is apparently, not everything. Sure..that's why they winter over in Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, and other states. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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