The White Man's Fear

[Keepitsimple]

So what. Harris was right about forcing them to leave. And don't tell me dudley george did not have a gun. And giving natives the many billions a yr, is not genocide. The problem is people will not call a spade a spade. The chiefs and band councils are 98% of the problem. Just like the enquiry on tygte murders of native women. that is not needed because everyone knows the problem, it has been proved. The natives want to keep this going until they get the answer they want, it is the white man's fault.

......and the media often tout the figure of 1200 missing and murdered without saying that it covers a 30 year period. When you have over 600 nations scattered throughout Canada, many in isolated places stricken with poor living conditions - is it really that surprising that there's 40 of these occurrences each year - an average of one a year for every 15 Nations?

[Spiderfish]

To reply to a comment is not a directive but a courtesy. I reply to courteous and honest questions with courteous and honest answers. Baiting, insults or lack of civility I ignore.

If you could identify which part of my inquiry was baiting, insulting, or lacking in civility in any way, I would be happy to re-phrase it so as not to offend your sensitivity. Help me out here. If the question was simply too awkward for you to address, that's fine as well.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Spiderfish

[Big Guy]

When people ignore the arguments and respond with labels designed to silence opinions they disagree with there is really no other response. It is not about changing minds but about rejecting the endless attempts to silence discussion of complex issues.

What you don't seem to understand is that some statements may, in fact, be racist and deserve to be called out as such. However, In a large number of cases the label is applied to opinions that are not racist at all. They are simply expressions of opinions which do not follow the 'politically correct' rule book.

I respond to what I consider racist and bigoted statements and views by stating that I think they are racist and bigoted. Being a racist or a bigot is not against the law. The poster may consider himself or herself a nationalist or patriot by demeaning other religions or races. Good for them.

Why even consider Big Guy's opinion?

What one considers as "politically correct" another considers honesty.

People and posters can call me what they want. I have been called everything in the book. A couple of people have even got it right. I know who and what I am and ignore those whose views I consider biased and misinformed.

I do not see calling a point of view "racist" or "bigoted" is an attempt to silence anything or anyone. Big Guy has already been outed here as a terrorist lover, anti-Semite, Putin lover, Israeli hater, American hater, Islamic infiltrator etc. and has bad breath. It has never dissuaded me from continuing to share my views.

I would never stop posting just because some anonymous avatar was unhappy with my opinions. Why would anyone?

[jacee]

So? I see nothing wrong with him making the statement.

Obviously Harris was more aware of the implications than you are, as he chose to lie about it.

Politicians cannot direct the operations of the police.

That independence is maintained to prevent politicians from using police against political adversaries, or in a politically partisan manner.

And I don't care if he lied to the farcical 'commission' set up by that sleazebag McGuinty.

A politician lying in a judicial proceeding is a significant event.

Obviously Harnick knew that and came clean.

Well, they don't seem to be very good at it given native numbers continue to grow year by year.

Genocide is destroying the identity/existence of a group as such.

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[jacee]

I don't think you read it very well. The article is a complaint about how ad-hom attacks on non-politically correct views have become the norm in political debate and this has made it impossible for rational discussions of the issues. It is a call to end the totalitarianism of the left before it completely destroys our society.

Of course, the argument went right over the heads of most lefty posters here who immediately responded with more of the ad-hom attacks designed to prevent people from expressing opposition to their totalitarian world views.

Interesting that he makes this distinction:

... not all white men are silent. The silencing of most good white men has provided an opportunity for the Trumps of the world to rise.

An important distinction, imo.

The true racists have not been silenced.

But 'good men'have gone silent.

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Edited January 7, 2016 by jacee

[jacee]

Poverty and dependence keeps them there.

Those who want to leave are in the cities.

Those who prefer the land where their ancestors have lived for generations ... prefer to stay, or go back.

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[Argus]

Interesting that he makes this distinction:

... not all white men are silent. The silencing of most good white men has provided an opportunity for the Trumps of the world to rise.

An important distinction, imo.

The true racists have not been silenced.

But 'good men'have gone silent.

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In the public sphere. You forgot that part in your attempt to suggest everyone who talks about these issues is a racist.

[jacee]

In the public sphere. You forgot that part in your attempt to suggest everyone who talks about these issues is a racist.

I think his point is valid: Some intelligent conversation has been silenced.

And I think that those still bleating loudly ... eg Trump ... are racists.

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[Smallc]

Those who want to leave are in the cities.

Those who prefer the land where their ancestors have lived for generations ... prefer to stay, or go back.

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That's wonderfully romantic - and far detached from reality.

[WestCoastRunner]

That's wonderfully romantic - and far detached from reality.

Can you explain your perception of reality

The highest priority is for the govt to provide schools and educational opportunities on the reservations. Education is the most successful way out of poverty and addiction.

Trust needs to be developed between the FN leaders and the individuals living on the reservations as well. Right now, there is lots of lack of trust all around.

[Smallc]

Can you explain your perception of reality

The highest priority is for the govt to provide schools and educational opportunities on the reservations. Education is the most successful way out of poverty and addiction.

Trust needs to be developed between the FN leaders and the individuals living on the reservations as well. Right now, there is lots of lack of trust all around.

I'm in favour of making life better for indigenous people on reserve. I'm not in favour of a falsely romantic notion of that.

[Machjo]

Interesting the money comes before human rights. That does not seem quite right.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I never said I agree with the popular prioritization of Canadian values.

I'm just saying what I believe them to be at present.

[Machjo]

Anglo-French nationalism is an invented term and a figment of your imagination.

By what term would you identify the belief that 'we' English and French Canadians rule the roost and that 'everyone else' are mete guests if not intruders who ought to kowtow to 'us?'

[Argus]

I'm in favour of making life better for indigenous people on reserve. I'm not in favour of a falsely romantic notion of that.

How can that even be done? There is nothing to do on the isolated reserves and never will be. There is no economically viable jobs on most reserves. You can build them nicer homes but they'll still have miserable lives with nothing to do, and so will wind up drinking and smashing up the houses.

[WestCoastRunner]

How can that even be done? There is nothing to do on the isolated reserves and never will be. There is no economically viable jobs on most reserves. You can build them nicer homes but they'll still have miserable lives with nothing to do, and so will wind up drinking and smashing up the houses.

We can provide educational environments, this will lead to a decrease in poverty and addiction.

[Argus]

We can provide educational environments, this will lead to a decrease in poverty and addiction.

How? How is having a good education going to lead to less poverty and addiction if there are no jobs out there in the bush?

[TimG]

We can provide educational environments, this will lead to a decrease in poverty and addiction.

Not without a source of employment. Society has become increasing urban all around the world because most economic activities need to be close to large population centers to be viable. Resource extraction is the one exception to the rule but that is not always an option for a random reserve in the middle of nowhere.

[Smallc]

We can provide educational environments, this will lead to a decrease in poverty and addiction.

If there's nothing to do, education can only solve so much, sans leaving.

[Machjo]

Education can give some the confidence to move to the city knowing they won't end up sleeping in the streets.

Beyond that though, Government has to change the laws to make the job market more accessible to indigenous peoples.

For example, does does Bill 101 help let's say a bilingual mohawk-English speaker rise up the corporate ladder in Quebec when the position requires French to fulfil the legal requirements of Bill 101?

The Official Languages Act, though not as draconian, has a similar effect. For example, all other qualifications being equal, who has the advantage in obtaining Federal employment (or at least in working his way up the Federal management ladder) in BC between a bilingual English-French speaker and a bilingual English-Sencoten speaker?

Quebec has proposed in the past that Federal institutions in Quebec should operate only in French. Not only would this save the Federal Government money, but could presumably make Federal employment in Quebec more accessible to indigenous Quebecers who don't know English.

Instead of opposing this, the Federal Government should have proposed applying the principle of official monolingualism nation-wide, French in Quebec and the French parts of New Brunswick, and English everywhere else. It would save much money in language training and make Federal employment and upward mobility more accessible to indigenous Canadians who don't know both official languages.

The only ones who benefit from official bilingualism are Anglo-French bilinguals.

[TimG]

For example, does does Bill 101 help let's say a bilingual mohawk-English speaker rise up the corporate ladder in Quebec when the position requires French to fulfill the legal requirements of Bill 101?

Quebec is one part of Canada. Nothing says that anyone needs to stay in Quebec to find work. If someone wants to live in Quebec they need to learn French.

The Official Languages Act, though not as draconian, has a similar effect. For example, all other qualifications being equal, who has the advantage in obtaining Federal employment

The federal language requirements vary by region. More importantly, the federal government is not the only employer around. Edited January 8, 2016 by TimG

[jacee]

I'm in favour of making life better for indigenous people on reserve. I'm not in favour of a falsely romantic notion of that.

http://m.therecord.com/news-story/3882415-visit-highlights-the-beauty-challenges-of-life-on-a-remote-reserve

[Machjo]

Federally regulated private sector industries must conform to official bilingualism too, meaning again that head-office staff will often need to be bilingual in English and French.

Once we remove Quebec, the Federal Government, and Federally regulated industries, this still leaves indigenous Canadians with access to many jobs in principle, just fewer than for English and French Canadians.

But once we factor in lack of education funding on reserves even without taking into account that many must learn English or French as a second language, this limits their access to employment even more.

The combined impact should be obvious. First, they must overcome educational underfunding, and then either limit themselves to the non-Federally regulated private sector outside Quebec or at least limit themselves to lower-level jobs within those sectors or learn English or French as a third language to access those jobs. English and French Canadians need learn French or English as a second language to access these same Federal jobs, and need nor even learn a second language at all to access the rest. This puts them at a significant advantage over their indigenous counterparts in both education and work.

[Machjo]

Now of course an English-speaking Mohawk can try to start a business on the reserve where Bill 101 won't apply, but then he gets slammed by the Indian Act (a curse and a blessing due to its restrictions and protections).

[Smallc]

http://m.therecord.com/news-story/3882415-visit-highlights-the-beauty-challenges-of-life-on-a-remote-reserve

I live right next to and work with people from a remote reserve that is very successful. I donate and participate in their cultural ceremonies. It's still not the romantic situation you're trying to portray.

[jacee]

I live right next to and work with people from a remote reserve that is very successful. I donate and participate in their cultural ceremonies. It's still not the romantic situation you're trying to portray.

Romantic is your word, rather meaningless really. Whose community is romantic?

Home is what it is.

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