overthere Posted January 15, 2016 Report Posted January 15, 2016 The situation is not comparable to alcohol either. Lets face it: homemade beer and wine, for the most part, tastes like ass. People who make it are proud of it, but in reality their friends drink it out of courtesy. Not so with a lot of homegrown weed. A couple thousand bucks, a few quality seeds, and a bit of easily obtained knowledge can create some very, very fine weed in any garage or basement. And does. Not so long ago, the best cannabis/hashish came from faraway places: Lebanon, Thailand, Pakistan, Afghanisitan, Mexico, Colombia etc. It was a very high risk business, people went to jail for decades by importing the product. Lots of weed was grown domestically in places like the Kootenays, but it was crap. Then along came hydroponics. In short order, major importing was kaput. Extremely high quality weed, far beyond the potency of the imports, could be grown anywhere with electricity and a bit of privacy. The best didn't come from the Hindu Kush, but from an acreage near Lumby, BC. It was the perfect cottage industry, and it still is. Trudeau knows there is no way around this reality. He claims international treaties blah blah blah but really it is the economics and optics and most of all the political capital risk that leave him cold...... Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
eyeball Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 These people are paying taxes on everything they put into their garden too so they're playing fair and square on the same playing field as anyone else. Security is as easy as a locked room inside a locked house. Equipment is all CSA materials and people use the very same equipment to grow peppers and tomatoes in the winter indoors without rotting out their homes with mold so...I look at the lady's house next door which is filled to the rafters with indoor plants and lots of moisture laden windows too so...I don't get it. I also recall the the house that got busted farther down the road that was similarly filled with pot. That I get. A little sun-hut in a garage? I won't get it if the state says no and neither will tens if not hundreds of thousands of Canadians. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 Even the black-market stuff is going downhill as producers lay-off hand trimmers and use big powered bud-beaters to knock leaves off in big batches. Sorta like beating feathers off chickens. The buds have to be bone dry to work and it knocks all the good stuff off too. Joints rolled in this crap go up in a blaze of hot smoke instead of slowly smouldering like properly cured hand-trimmed bud that's still retained a little moisture. I'm betting the big commercial growers in the future will refine the same basic process but then add moisture and flavour and god knows what else to make it burn normally and keep whacking-off the good stuff and turn that into oils for medicine or cookies or something I guess. They'll certainly be just as greedy as any criminal element they're hoping to displace. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
overthere Posted January 18, 2016 Report Posted January 18, 2016 Why did people stop buying from bootleggers when Prohibition ended?Because what bootleggers sold was often adulterated, low quality crap. Weed now is almost always very high quality, and easy to get anywhere in Canada. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Boges Posted January 18, 2016 Report Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Alcohol isn't comparable when it comes to production. A good scotch or bourbon takes a minimum 3 years to produce in barrels. That kind of up-front investments simply isn't required for weed. Sure there are people that may decide that it's easier just to go to whatever store suddenly sells the stuff. But if you're a user that's comfortable with the supply line you already have, what motivation do you have to change? But I imagine those would be casual or even new users that were uncomfortable about doing something illegal beforehand. I can actually see enforcement of weed laws increase under a legalized model where cops will look to make people prove that they are using "duty paid" weed instead of contraband weed. Currently criminally charging people for simple possession isn't worth anyone's time in law enforcement. But if a hefty ticket applied to the use of contraband weed then I'm sure cops will be a little more passionate about enforcement. Edited January 18, 2016 by Boges Quote
overthere Posted January 18, 2016 Report Posted January 18, 2016 Maybe that is what Trudeau meant by 'building infrastructure": more cops, inspectors, court staff required to prosecute for possession of what will be a legal drug. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
eyeball Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 I can actually see enforcement of weed laws increase under a legalized model where cops will look to make people prove that they are using "duty paid" weed instead of contraband weed. Keep your sales slips then. Home brewers pay sales taxes on the equipment and things they buy for making intoxicants. Do they also pay a sin or pigouvian taxes on top of that? Is that what you're proposing for people who choose to grow their own pot? How would you apply such a thing to electricity? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Maybe that is what Trudeau meant by 'building infrastructure": more cops, inspectors, court staff required to prosecute for possession of what will be a legal drug. Sounds like it'll be more for the prosecution of tax avoidance. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Sounds like it'll be more for the prosecution of tax avoidance. so now we'll be putting people in jail for doing what they've been doing in droves for a long time- growing and smoking weed. Except now it is a legal substance. I can make my own beer and wine, but I cannot smoke a spliff unless Ottawa approves the content and process.. Trudeau must see the danger here for him politically, he cannot possibly be this witless.. Much better to fob it off on provinces, let them reap this pending nightmare. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 How would you apply such a thing to electricity? There will be many new jobs available as certified grow light inspectors, and different kwh rates for tomatoes, orchids and sensemilla. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Boges Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Keep your sales slips then. Home brewers pay sales taxes on the equipment and things they buy for making intoxicants. Do they also pay a sin or pigouvian taxes on top of that? Is that what you're proposing for people who choose to grow their own pot? How would you apply such a thing to electricity? If you're growing you're own, you're clearly producing a duty-free controlled substance. Ontario wants to sell pot out of the LCBO (The OP of the thread). The likes of the LCBO don't like competition. You don't need to pay sales taxes on grapes or yeast or rye wheat or barley, and even if you did, it doesn't have an excise tax attached. You only pay taxes when you go to these silly make your own places. As OT said, people who do this do it as a hobby and not to create a substance anyone would want to buy. Quote
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I'm for legalization, but I don't think weed should be sold along side alcohol. I wonder if drug store licensing is a better way to distribute. Does anybody know what roadside impairment tests are used in places that have legalized cannabis use? Do motorists have to consent to blood tests or risk conviction? Edited January 22, 2016 by Guest Quote
Boges Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I'm for legalization, but I don't think weed should be sold along side alcohol. I wonder if drug store licensing is a better way to distribute. Does anybody know what roadside impairment tests are used in places that have legalized cannabis use? Do motorists have to consent to blood tests or risk conviction? You can't even sell Cigarettes in Drug stores anymore but you want people to buy recreational weed? Not going to happen. And please don't go down the line that weed isn't as bad as alcohol and tobacco so it should be sold next to Aspirin. The problem with cannabis blood tests is that is stays in the system well after it doesn't effect impairment. Only some sort of field sobriety test would be useful and even then I doubt a conviction could be used based on that. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 If this gonna be such a huge problem here, how is it it is such a big success in the states that have done the same thing? http://www.businessinsider.com/r-pot-shops-buzz-crime-eases-as-colorado-law-marks-6-months-2014-03 Quote
Boges Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) If this gonna be such a huge problem here, how is it it is such a big success in the states that have done the same thing? http://www.businessinsider.com/r-pot-shops-buzz-crime-eases-as-colorado-law-marks-6-months-2014-03 Because the US does not have such a Nanny State model for distribution of controlled substances. As well as far lower excise taxes. Edited January 22, 2016 by Boges Quote
Guest Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 You can't even sell Cigarettes in Drug stores anymore but you want people to buy recreational weed? Not going to happen. And please don't go down the line that weed isn't as bad as alcohol and tobacco so it should be sold next to Aspirin. The problem with cannabis blood tests is that is stays in the system well after it doesn't effect impairment. Only some sort of field sobriety test would be useful and even then I doubt a conviction could be used based on that. Because the US does not have such a Nanny State model for distribution of controlled substances. As well as far lower excise taxes.I'm fine with the taxing. I just don't know if we should increase exposure to weed by offering it in all LCBO outlets. I mentioned drug stores, but you are probably right that, like smoking, weed is an ill fit for health based pharmaceutical outlets. Pot should probably be sold through stand alone cannabis outlets, so as not to unnecessarily increase exposure. Similar to tobacco, it should be legal, but we shouldn't normalize it. Pot should also be available via prescription through drug stores for various pain relief plans though. Quote
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) If you're growing you're own, you're clearly producing a duty-free controlled substance. Ontario wants to sell pot out of the LCBO (The OP of the thread). The likes of the LCBO don't like competition. You don't need to pay sales taxes on grapes or yeast or rye wheat or barley, and even if you did, it doesn't have an excise tax attached. You only pay taxes when you go to these silly make your own places. As OT said, people who do this do it as a hobby and not to create a substance anyone would want to buy. Why do you insist on punishing people with a judgemental tax for doing something you don't like? What the Hell is the matter with you anyway? Edited January 28, 2016 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Boges Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Why do you insist on punishing people with a judgemental tax for doing something you don't like? What the Hell is the matter with you anyway? I don't want additional taxes put on products like beer, tobacco OR pot. But gumints do what gumints do. Quote
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 I don't want additional taxes put on products like beer, tobacco OR pot. But gumints do what gumints do. Gumints do what they do because people do little if anything to stop them. Eventually they just ignore them. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Boges Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Gumints do what they do because people do little if anything to stop them. Eventually they just ignore them. So if you're so opposed to excise taxes then do you think governments will still have a lot of contraband MJ to deal with even if it's legal? Quote
ReeferMadness Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 You can't even sell Cigarettes in Drug stores anymore but you want people to buy recreational weed? Not going to happen. And please don't go down the line that weed isn't as bad as alcohol and tobacco so it should be sold next to Aspirin. Yeah, let's save that line for people who believe in looking at actual evidence. And unlike aspirin,nobody has ever died from marijuana poisoning. You really want to compare health effects of alcohol, tobacco and marijuana? The problem with cannabis blood tests is that is stays in the system well after it doesn't effect impairment. Only some sort of field sobriety test would be useful and even then I doubt a conviction could be used based on that. While not recommended, marijuana and driving cannot be compared to alcohol and driving. First, marijuana has less overall impact on motor skills. Second (and more importantly), while alcohol impairs your judgement, it also makes you much more likely to be aggressive and take risks. Marijuana has the opposite effect and tends to make drivers more cautious. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) . Edited January 28, 2016 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 So if you're so opposed to excise taxes then do you think governments will still have a lot of contraband MJ to deal with even if it's legal? I'm not opposed to taxes I just want the friggen' government off my back. Friggen' stupid conservative desires to see the government stomping all over people's backs for so long now is why the financial and social cost of legalizing pot will make the gun registry look like a minor expense and inconvenience. I think illegal pot will be better quality and half the price of the legal crap. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Marijuana has the opposite effect and tends to make drivers more cautious. I wouldn't be surprised if it makes a lot of people better drivers. Recall when the performance enhancing potential of pot was suggested when Ross Nickle-bagliati won a gold medal award at the Olympics. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Boges Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Yeah, let's save that line for people who believe in looking at actual evidence. And unlike aspirin,nobody has ever died from marijuana poisoning. You really want to compare health effects of alcohol, tobacco and marijuana? While not recommended, marijuana and driving cannot be compared to alcohol and driving. First, marijuana has less overall impact on motor skills. Second (and more importantly), while alcohol impairs your judgement, it also makes you much more likely to be aggressive and take risks. Marijuana has the opposite effect and tends to make drivers more cautious. So you do want unrestricted access to canibis. If you're saying it's safer than Aspirin anyway. That's fine but under a legalized model where it's treated as a controlled substance, that'll never happen. So perhaps the status quo were laws just aren't enforced is preferable. Quote
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