Ferguson Effect Causes Increase in Violence

[Big Guy]

Thirty of the biggest U.S. municipalities have seen increases in homicides compared to last year as of the end of September, according to data provided by the Major City Chiefs Association. Many politicians and lawmakers blame this increase on the reluctance of police officers to challenge and confront "bad guys" in fear of becoming a youtube star and/or getting involved in a dispute similar to what happened in Ferguson Mo. They are reluctant to get involved in anticipation of violence, a behaviour they had followed in the past but can lead to problems for the policeman.

http://thehill.com/news/administration/258737-obama-fbi-director-spar-over-the-ferguson-effect-on-police

Most people were glad to hear that more and more policemen would be wearing body cameras to discourage the use of unnecessary force by police and frivolous lawsuits from arrested individuals. But there is evidence that these same policemen are now NOT applying the law as vigorously as they had in the past and this leads to more violence against citizens and inferior policing.

Are body cameras for police a good thing or a bad thing?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Big Guy

[Smeelious]

So long as they are following actual protocol I see them as a good thing. Any use of force could then be viewed in the full context as apposed to whatever fraction we see on other's recordings of the incident.

[eyeball]

Thirty of the biggest U.S. municipalities have seen increases in homicides compared to last year as of the end of September, according to data provided by the Major City Chiefs Association. Many politicians and lawmakers blame this increase on the reluctance of police officers to challenge and confront "bad guys" in fear of becoming a youtube star and/or getting involved in a dispute similar to what happened in Ferguson Mo. They are reluctant to get involved in anticipation of violence, a behaviour they had followed in the past but can lead to problems for the policeman.

Americans have a long rich celebrated history of settling their issues with guns. In a lot of ways this reluctance to interfere should be the natural reaction.

Are body cameras for police a good thing or a bad thing?

Body cameras for anyone in positions of civil authoritah will always be a good thing.

[H10]

Thirty of the biggest U.S. municipalities have seen increases in homicides compared to last year as of the end of September, according to data provided by the Major City Chiefs Association. Many politicians and lawmakers blame this increase on the reluctance of police officers to challenge and confront "bad guys" in fear of becoming a youtube star and/or getting involved in a dispute similar to what happened in Ferguson Mo. They are reluctant to get involved in anticipation of violence, a behaviour they had followed in the past but can lead to problems for the policeman.

http://thehill.com/news/administration/258737-obama-fbi-director-spar-over-the-ferguson-effect-on-police

Most people were glad to hear that more and more policemen would be wearing body cameras to discourage the use of unnecessary force by police and frivolous lawsuits from arrested individuals. But there is evidence that these same policemen are now NOT applying the law as vigorously as they had in the past and this leads to more violence against citizens and inferior policing.

Are body cameras for police a good thing or a bad thing?

There are patterns of cyclical crime that are not clearly explained by any sociological factors, but it seems to occur in roughly 7 year patterns. There are so many other factors like the bad economy (which is linked to higher crime in general as this is when s--- hits the fan, couples divorce, husband kills wife, people sell drugs who didn't use and get caught up in wrong crowd and kill or be killed or commit crimes). Throw on all the stand your ground laws that have been passed in the last 5-10 years, in America its not even called stand your ground it is literally called the shoot first law, because as long as you shoot first and kill you stand a good chance of getting away with murder if no witnesses can be found, the end of clinton's federal assault weapon's ban also had a big effect.

There is no real evidence that cops are not confronting bad guys because they fear becoming youtube stars and there is no real evidence that such a fear would cause an increase in crime. This is at best a theory, you need peer reviewed studies to say this is true or real there are so many other factors that can cause an increase in murder. For instance, this year 6,600 prisoners were released from prison because the federal government found prisons were 30% overcrowded. People were getting out of jail early, that is 6,600 convicted FELONS. That alone is enough to account for every single extra crime.

Body cameras are a goodt thing, cops aren't suppose to apply the law. They are suppose to uphold, there job is to investigate crimes, gather evidence, give it to the prosecutor who tries to determine if there is a reasonable chance of conviction and if the person is guilty, then bring that to a judge or jury who makes the determination if the person is guilty and then apply the appropriate law to reach a just decision. It seems some people want cops to be judge jury and executioners.

I suspect there is a Ferguson effect but it isn't the way that the FBI director suggest. I think alot of people look at what Darren Wilson did or George Zimmerman did and say I can shoot someone, say they attacked me, shoot them dead and claim it was self defense. Something like that will definitely cause an increase in murder because now there is a widespread perception that individuals won't be held responsible criminally for murdering. In fact there was an fbi agent shortly after Zimmerman acquital who did something very similar to his wife and was found not guilty.

[Black Dog]

The "Ferguson Effect" is probably bullshit, but what's really funny is the implicit idea that police are incapable of doing their jobs without resorting to extreme violence/brutality.

[kimmy]

It's been a few months so I guess another thread on "the Ferguson Effect" was due.

Last time, the thread was inspired by an article from Heather MacDonald, who works for a right-wing think-tank that promotes a law-and-order agenda that police unions and right-wing talking heads want Americans to believe in. They want to scare people into thinking there's a crime wave.

Her piece was rebutted by this article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/franklin-zimring-national-crime-wave-article-1.2248373

And, to reiterate the point that Black Dog just made, it also makes the observation:

Mac Donald’s piece itself was incredibly cynical. It tied into a growing backlash against police reform from law enforcement groups, police unions, and the law-and-order crowd, and has circulated widely among those groups. Implicit in her argument is the idea that the average police officer is incapable of doing his job properly if other police officers are getting criticized, rebuked, or held accountable for misconduct.

And tellingly, that's exactly what Director Comey is arguing:

“Nobody says it on the record, nobody says it in public, but police and elected officials are quietly saying it to themselves,” Comey said. He said officers from one big-city precinct told him, “We feel like we’re under siege, and we don’t feel much like getting out of our cars.”

To hear the right-wing talking heads explain it, you'd think "the Ferguson Effect" is about black-people resisting police.

But to hear Director Comey's explanation, it sounds like "the Ferguson Effect" is actually about butt-hurt cops not doing their jobs because they're pouting.

-k