Strategic Voting - It needs to be done

[eyeball]

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/10/04/why-stephen-harper-has-no-fear-of-strategic-voting-hepburn.html

This one?

It does raise some good points about the "why" it doesn't work though.

The first two points about the lack of information and confusion amongst strategic voters I think is rectifying itself election by election. They'll be less and less important as social media technology and refining of the methods to organize improve. Strategic voting is a phenomenon that's here to stay sans PR and will become more effective over time.

The third point rests on the belief that Canadians identify themselves as loyal Liberals and NDPer's struggling with their conscience which seems kind of silly.

[Keepitsimple]

An excerpt from that Star story seems to validate the Conservative surge.....

In recent days, near-panic has started to emerge among progressive voters who fear Harper and the Conservatives will be re-elected, possibly with a majority government, in the election just over two weeks from now.

Their worries are sparked by recent polls showing the Conservatives starting to break the three-way log jam with the New Democrats and Liberals that has marked this campaign for months and edging ever closer to a majority.

In hopes of derailing Harper, loose groups of progressive voters, such as Leadnow.ca, are urging voters to end vote splitting between the Liberals, NDP and Green Party that allows the Tories to win ridings with less than 50 per cent of the votes cast.

[angrypenguin]

An excerpt from that Star story seems to validate the Conservative surge.....

And green party.

Lol.

[Guest]

Until our unfair electoral system is fixed Canadian progressives absolutely must vote strategically. It's a sad situation when simply supporting the progressive candidate of choice could very well hurt the party a voter is hoping to support and ultimately help the regressive ideology of Stephen Harper and the CPC.

Both the Liberals and New Democrats are vowing to pursue a change to a proportional electoral system. Until then progressives need to vote with our heads, instead of our hearts and support the strongest progressive candidate in our riding. This list highlights the top left candidate based on recent local polling data in the closest 128 ridings. http://www.strategicvoting.ca/swingdistricts.php

[eyeball]

Is it illegal to encourage people as they enter a polling station to vote a particular way?

[Smeelious]

Is it illegal to encourage people as they enter a polling station to vote a particular way?

Isn't that the whole point of an election?

[eyeball]

It's certainly the whole point of the campaign but what about right on election day right in front of the polling station?

[Guest]

Is it illegal to encourage people as they enter a polling station to vote a particular way?

Is that a question? Is this a polling station? What do election campaigns do?

[Guest]

I suspect it is illegal to campaign at a polling station on election day.

[angrypenguin]

Is it illegal to encourage people as they enter a polling station to vote a particular way?

Why?

[eyeball]

I was thinking about standing in front of mine with a sign that says vote strategically.

[Guest]

In my opinion, with both the NDP and Liberals vowing to pursue proportional representation it is more important than ever for progressives to vote strategically. This could be the last federal election where strategic voting is even an issue. Current polling has the Liberals in a slim lead, but based on older numbers this graphic highlights the stark difference strategic voting could make:

Sorry, I can't figure out how to adjust the size of that picture.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Guest

[Smeelious]

Things that can't be done:

• display partisan symbols or material inside or near a polling place, which may include the parking lot, grounds and sidewalk;
  
• display campaign literature or other material that could be taken as an indication of support for or opposition to the election of a candidate or a political party; and
  
• use or wear colours or emblems in the polling place that would identify your candidate or party.
  

So I'd guess it would be illegal...if you were serious...

http://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=can&dir=cand/gui&document=index〈=e

Edited October 6, 2015 by Smeelious

[Guest]

I was thinking about standing in front of mine with a sign that says vote strategically.

Instead you could share this link with as many people as you can: http://www.strategicvoting.ca/swingdistricts.php

[Argus]

In my opinion, with both the NDP and Liberals vowing to pursue proportional representation it is more important than ever for progressives to vote strategically. This could be the last federal election where strategic voting is even an issue. Current polling has the Liberals in a slim lead, but based on older numbers this graphic highlights the stark difference strategic voting could make:

So under the existing FPTP system the Tories would get about one third of the seats to go with their one third of the votes, and you uh 'progressives' who have been howling about how unfair FPTP is and how desperately important it is for democracy that the seats reflect the popular votes don't have any issue with the Tories being shafted, getting 33% of the popular vote but only receiving 12% of the seats.

As I've said repeatedly, the only thing driving the effort at changing how we vote is the anti-democratic beliefs of progressives who despise conservatives.

[ToadBrother]

So under the existing FPTP system the Tories would get about one third of the seats to go with their one third of the votes, and you uh 'progressives' who have been howling about how unfair FPTP is and how desperately important it is for democracy that the seats reflect the popular votes don't have any issue with the Tories being shafted, getting 33% of the popular vote but only receiving 12% of the seats.

As I've said repeatedly, the only thing driving the effort at changing how we vote is the anti-democratic beliefs of progressives who despise conservatives.

How fascinating. Increased democracy is less democracy.

And are you really saying a conservative party couldn't win under an alternative voting system. That's a rather odd claim considering Angela Merkel's CDU has been incredibly successful in an MMPR system.

You just don't want to give up the advantage the Tories currently have, despite the fact that surely you can't even imagine that advantage is permanent. For much of Canada's history, it's been the Liberals who enjoyed that vote efficiency advantage.

[dre]

So under the existing FPTP system the Tories would get about one third of the seats to go with their one third of the votes, and you uh 'progressives' who have been howling about how unfair FPTP is and how desperately important it is for democracy that the seats reflect the popular votes don't have any issue with the Tories being shafted, getting 33% of the popular vote but only receiving 12% of the seats.

As I've said repeatedly, the only thing driving the effort at changing how we vote is the anti-democratic beliefs of progressives who despise conservatives.

I rarely care who wins the federal election and i dont care much for either of the three leading parties.

Whats driving me to have an open mind to changing the system is that I think it places too much power in the hands of parties that only get 30x% of the popular vote. Both the liberals and conservatives have benefited from this in the past.

[ToadBrother]

I rarely care who wins the federal election and i dont care much for either of the three leading parties.

Whats driving me to have an open mind to changing the system is that I think it places too much power in the hands of parties that only get 30x% of the popular vote. Both the liberals and conservatives have benefited from this in the past.

And really, if we went to STV, AV or MMPR, all the parties would have to adapt. And if Argus' point is that another system would deprive the Tories of power forever, then maybe he should be asking himself why a large majority of the electorate doesn't approve of the Tories.

[Big Guy]

Is it illegal to encourage people as they enter a polling station to vote a particular way?

It depends if you are wearing a sidearm or not.

[Guest]

As I've said repeatedly, the only thing driving the effort at changing how we vote is the anti-democratic beliefs of progressives who despise conservatives.

Based on your comment here, I suspect that you either do not understand how our electoral system works or that you are a right wing voter who currently benefits from the voting distorting First Past The Post System. I get that you may not like the potential results of a fair voting system, that treats every vote equally, but calling it anti-democratic simply doesn't make sense.

[Argus]

Based on your comment here, I suspect that you either do not understand how our electoral system works or that you are a right wing voter who currently benefits from the voting distorting First Past The Post System. I get that you may not like the potential results of a fair voting system, that treats every vote equally, but calling it anti-democratic simply doesn't make sense.

But you are calling for actions that you hope will greatly diminish the number of seats the Conservatives will win below their popular vote percentage. So clearly, you aren't so very much interested in the seat count reflecting popular support as all that eh?

[ToadBrother]

But you are calling for actions that you hope will greatly diminish the number of seats the Conservatives will win below their popular vote percentage. So clearly, you aren't so very much interested in the seat count reflecting popular support as all that eh?

How would the Tories win below their percentage in a PR system? The whole point of such systems, along with STV, is to more closely match a party's seat count to their electoral success.

[Argus]

How would the Tories win below their percentage in a PR system? The whole point of such systems, along with STV, is to more closely match a party's seat count to their electoral success.

I understand that, but the person I was addressing posted a hopeful chart showing how Tory support, currently about 33% would translate to about 120 seats which is appropriate. Then the chart suggests how to lower that to only 40 seats. So clearly the idea that the Conservative voters would be largely disenfranchised wasn't any concern.

[ToadBrother]

I understand that, but the person I was addressing posted a hopeful chart showing how Tory support, currently about 33% would translate to about 120 seats which is appropriate. Then the chart suggests how to lower that to only 40 seats. So clearly the idea that the Conservative voters would be largely disenfranchised wasn't any concern.

I cannot think of any electoral system, even FPTP, that would translate 33% support into 40 seats.

[Smeelious]

Unless an extreme movement for strategic voting somehow works...

And then it would be possible...that's the problem with FPTP