Machjo Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 Why I might cast a blank ballot. With the NDP, the LPC, CPC, and Green Parties all inscribing support for official bilingualism in their very constitutions and no party prepared to open the Constitution to remove the Separate school system (two important symbols of residential-school-era laws and Constitutional provisions that were inspired by the same or similar beliefs in 'two founding races'), I can't vote for any of them. I was leaning lately mostly towards a competent Libertarian candidate and in its absence a Bloc Candidate to help fight wasteful spending on official bilingualism and knowing that neither of these parties is likely to defend the Separate School System. With no Libertarian candidate in my riding, this leaves me with the Bloc. But I remember the Bloc's support for the PQ's 'Charter of values' and now the Bloc is invoking the notwithstanding clause to arbitrarily curtail religious freedom at citizenship ceremonies. There was another time in Canadian history when religious freedom was similarly curtailed, and that was under the Indian Act when indigenous religious ceremonies were banned. It's just a case of history repeating itself yet again, and I just can't vote for a party that wants to bring Canada back to that time in our history. So at present, this leaves me with no other choice but to cast a blank ballot. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
cybercoma Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 Ontario is the only province with catholic schools (the separate school boards). That is entirely a provincial matter. Quote
Big Guy Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 I have spent a lot of time on politics and have made a decision on who I am going to vote for. If you choose to submit a blank ballot, it will give my vote more influence on the outcome. Thank you. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Machjo Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Posted September 23, 2015 Ontario is the only province with catholic schools (the separate school boards). That is entirely a provincial matter. Wrong. It's a Constitutional matter. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Posted September 23, 2015 I have spent a lot of time on politics and have made a decision on who I am going to vote for. If you choose to submit a blank ballot, it will give my vote more influence on the outcome. Thank you. If there there is no good option, then what does it matter? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Posted September 23, 2015 If there there is no good option, then what does it matter? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Accountability Now Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 Ontario is the only province with catholic schools (the separate school boards). That is entirely a provincial matter. Alberta has Catholic schools but determination of who is separate is based on which school system was there first. So in one community the Catholic system was there so they are the public system and the separate system is the non-religious. In most other cases the catholic system is separate. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 If there there is no good option, then what does it matter? Yes. They all suck. I'm glad other people agree. I will also probably spoil my ballot. Quote
Big Guy Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) If there there is no good option, then what does it matter? My reply that it would strengthen my vote was mot meant as a negative. There are some organizations to which I belong which allow proxy voting. I do seek out those members who have little interest in the running of the organization and request their proxy - and get it most of the time. I then attend the meeting armed with a number of proxies which gives me a far greater control of the outcome of policy votes. It would be interesting to see what the result would be if our electoral system would allow people who are interested to gather a number of proxies from the uninterested and vote accordingly to their personal preference. Edited September 23, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
ToadBrother Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 If there there is no good option, then what does it matter? In principle I agree, but in reality, unless you're running yourself, how are you ever going to arrive at a good candidate? Voting isn't a dating service; there is no E-Harmony for voters to find their perfect political match. It is always going to be a choice of lesser evils, not becausd parties and candidates are necessarily bad, but simply because they have to build very big tents to attract as many voters as possible. My feeling is that people spend too much time listening to partisans, and get this very skewed view of government. I'm guilty of it too, and watching partisans battle each other as if every election was some earth shattering event, and if you pocky wrong, the moon will explode and the sun won't rise. Voting is important, but in general it isn't THAT important, and you shouldn't let the partisans spoil the process. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) In principle I agree, but in reality, unless you're running yourself, how are you ever going to arrive at a good candidate? Voting isn't a dating service; there is no E-Harmony for voters to find their perfect political match. It is always going to be a choice of lesser evils, not becausd parties and candidates are necessarily bad, but simply because they have to build very big tents to attract as many voters as possible. If you had an election where the only two options were Hitler and Stalin, would you vote for one of them, or would you spoil your ballot? There comes a point where the options are so distasteful that spoiling one's ballot more accurately represents your views than voting for the 'least bad' candidate. Edited September 23, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote
Bonam Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) If you had an election where the only two options were Hitler and Stalin, would you vote for one of them, or would you spoil your ballot? There comes a point where the options are so distasteful that spoiling one's ballot more accurately represents your views than voting for the 'least bad' candidate. If my only choice was between Hitler and Stalin, damn right I'd pick one of the two... the one I thought would be least likely to end up killing me. The worse your options are, the MORE important it is to pick the less bad one, because the consequences are higher. At some point, the choice is less about "accurately representing your views" and more about survival, or translating this analogy back to the less extreme: making sure you get screwed over less. Edited September 23, 2015 by Bonam Quote
Smallc Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 Wrong. It's a Constitutional matter. And can be changed with simple agreement between the Parliament of Canada and the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 If my only choice was between Hitler and Stalin, damn right I'd pick one of the two... the one I thought would be least likely to end up killing me. The worse your options are, the MORE important it is to pick the less bad one, because the consequences are higher. At some point, the choice is less about "accurately representing your views" and more about survival, or translating this analogy back to the less extreme: making sure you get screwed over less. But by voting, you are giving one of them legitimacy. If the majority of people spoiled their ballots, neither candidate would have legitimacy. Quote
Bonam Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 But by voting, you are giving one of them legitimacy. If the majority of people spoiled their ballots, neither candidate would have legitimacy. But one of them would be in control anyway. Getting back to the Canadian situation, there is no provision in our electoral system for invalidating election results or reducing the power of the government if voter turnout is low or if a high percentage of ballots are spoiled. "Legitimacy" is just a meaningless word if it doesn't affect the end result. Look at all the people complaining for years that only 20% (or whatever the heck the number was) of Canadians voted for Harper and yet he has a majority. They've whined for years and yet it has not had any practical result. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 But by voting, you are giving one of them legitimacy. If the majority of people spoiled their ballots, neither candidate would have legitimacy. I think that if you really can't support a candidate in good conscience, spoiling your vote is a perfectly valid option. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Canada_First Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 I think that if you really can't support a candidate in good conscience, spoiling your vote is a perfectly valid option.no one will care in the slightest. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) no one will care in the slightest. That's not necessarily true. It's all in the numbers. If a sufficient number of people spoil their votes (particularly if they organize and do it in a consistent fashion), someone will recognize it and do something about it. If all the non-voters voted the same way, they would easily come in first. Edited September 23, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Canada_First Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 That's not necessarily true. It's all in the numbers. If a sufficient number of people spoil their votes (particularly if they organize and do it in a consistent fashion), someone will recognize it and do something about it. If all the non-voters voted the same way, they would easily come in first. Until then... Quote
Smallc Posted September 23, 2015 Report Posted September 23, 2015 If all the non-voters voted the same way, they would easily come in first. As Gilles Duceppe once said, if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a tractor. If you can't find anyone to vote for (or at least to vote against) from the plethora of choices, you'll probably never be satisfied. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 24, 2015 Report Posted September 24, 2015 As Gilles Duceppe once said, if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a tractor. If you can't find anyone to vote for (or at least to vote against) from the plethora of choices, you'll probably never be satisfied. You and CF are missing the point. Individually, one spoiled ballot doesn't count, the same as one vote for a candidate doesn't count. Collectively, a lot of spoiled ballots will be noticed, the same as a lot of votes for a candidate will elect someone. If enough people go and spoil ballots, it will send a message. If they stay home, the message that will be sent is they don't care. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted September 24, 2015 Report Posted September 24, 2015 You and CF are missing the point. I get the point, I just don't care about your whining. I'm like those people that stay home, but for whining. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 24, 2015 Report Posted September 24, 2015 I get the point, I just don't care about your whining. I'm like those people that stay home, but for whining. You don't care but you keep arguing anyway. Bored? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Bonam Posted September 24, 2015 Report Posted September 24, 2015 You and CF are missing the point. Individually, one spoiled ballot doesn't count, the same as one vote for a candidate doesn't count. Collectively, a lot of spoiled ballots will be noticed, the same as a lot of votes for a candidate will elect someone. If enough people go and spoil ballots, it will send a message. If they stay home, the message that will be sent is they don't care. Great, you'll send a message. Maybe there'll be a little article on page 6 of the paper "Unusual number of voters spoiled their ballots this election". Then everything will go on as usual, with the party that won the most seats running the government. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 24, 2015 Report Posted September 24, 2015 Great, you'll send a message. Maybe there'll be a little article on page 6 of the paper "Unusual number of voters spoiled their ballots this election". Then everything will go on as usual, with the party that won the most seats running the government. You're right. Give up. There's really no point in getting out of bed. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
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