The Tories' War On Data

[ToadBrother]

Macleans has a pretty harrowing article on how the Conservatives have steadily been eroding the Federal Government's ability to gather data and even store pre-existing data.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/vanishing-canada-why-were-all-losers-in-ottawas-war-on-data/

The Conservatives, or more particularly the Reform wing of the party, has had a long-standing dislike of academia, of science, and now the full extent of that war on knowledge is being revealed. This is a government that truly does believe that ignorance is some sort of strength, and while a more charitable view is that the cuts it has inflicted on Federal departments are simply a product of stupidity and irresponsibility, I think the sadder interpretation is that the Tories despise knowledge.

[Keepitsimple]

This is just another timely slag (coincidental of course) at the Conservative government.. Starting off by whining about the census and then highlighting a "non-partisan" report by "Voices".....which of course is totally partisan once you start to read it. No mention of previous governments or the McGuinty/Wynne gang........not worth the time of day.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[Evening Star]

This, and what I see as related issues pertaining to their general attitude towards academic freedom, are my biggest problems with the Conservatives. If anything could convince me that they are bad enough that voting strategically against them is justified, it would be this. (Cue apologists mentioning something the Liberals did 20 years ago as a defence + predicting what the NDP would do if they win).

Edit: Ha, got in before me.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Evening Star

[bush_cheney2004]

Shucks...it was a good read until I got to the usual comparisons to the United States. Canada will not spend the kind of money it takes to create, maintain, and provide access to such data, regardless of ruling party.

Edited September 20, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[TimG]

This, and what I see as related issues pertaining to their general attitude towards academic freedom, are my biggest problems with the Conservatives.

What nonsense. The academic freedom does not exist because academics themselves seek to expunge peers who do not toe the party line on anything from social science to climate change.

In fact some academics are starting to confront this bias head on:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=6C78706E660F4CCD68CA390605106912.journals?fromPage=online&aid=9945982

This article reviews the available evidence and finds support for four claims: (1) Academic psychology once had considerable political diversity, but has lost nearly all of it in the last 50 years. (2) This lack of political diversity can undermine the validity of social psychological science via mechanisms such as the embedding of liberal values into research questions and methods, steering researchers away from important but politically unpalatable research topics, and producing conclusions that mischaracterize liberals and conservatives alike. (3) Increased political diversity would improve social psychological science by reducing the impact of bias mechanisms such as confirmation bias, and by empowering dissenting minorities to improve the quality of the majority's thinking. (4) The underrepresentation of non-liberals in social psychology is most likely due to a combination of self-selection, hostile climate, and discrimination. We close with recommendations for increasing political diversity in social psychology.

There is lots of truth to the adage is left-wing academics love diversity in every aspect except for thought. In that domain they demand conformity.

Edited September 20, 2015 by TimG

[Evening Star]

the McGuinty/Wynne gang.....

Are there cases of the OLP doing the sorts of things described in the article?

Edited September 20, 2015 by Evening Star

[Argus]

Macleans has a pretty harrowing article on how the Conservatives have steadily been eroding the Federal Government's ability to gather data and even store pre-existing data.

You know, I bet when Jean Chretien cut federal spending to the bone, among the first to go were non-essential environmental and statistical studies, programs and groups, and the scientists who worked for them. I bet they weren't all that concerned about storing old material much either. But of course, nobody imputed any sort of sinister motivation. Of course they were getting rid of non-essential people first! It's not like they could cut pensions or stop making payments on the debt.

But there seems to be this willingness, even eagerness on the Left to see everything the Tories do under some sort of paranoid light. It's kind of demented, really.

The Conservatives, or more particularly the Reform wing of the party, has had a long-standing dislike of academia, of science,

That's tinfoil hat stuff with no validity. It just makes the Left feel superior if they say it a lot. What the Tories don't like are academics and scientists with biased studies who, let's face it, have always hated them anyway, or people who contradict their policies - a dislike shared by every other government of every political stripe in history.

[Evening Star]

What nonsense. The academic freedom does not exist because academics themselves seek to expunge peers who do not toe the party line on anything from social science to climate change.

In fact some academics are starting to confront this bias head on:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=6C78706E660F4CCD68CA390605106912.journals?fromPage=online&aid=9945982

There is lots of truth to the adage is left-wing academics love diversity in every aspect except for thought. In that domain they demand conformity.

I'm sceptical, although I haven't read your link yet, and don't think this is true in my field, but is your argument that the actions described by Maclean's are justified because of this?

[Evening Star]

What the Tories don't like are ... people who contradict their policies

Just saving this one.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Evening Star

[TimG]

I'm sceptical, although I haven't read your link yet, and don't think this is true in my field, but is your argument that the actions described by Maclean's are justified because of this?

I am saying that your assertion that academic freedom exists is false. In any field conformity to the dominate view is enforced by the peer review system. That said, the Conservative position on the census is strange and if you want to say their actions make it much harder to do some types of analyses then I would agree. The question then is whether these analyses are really that important?

[TimG]

Just saving this one.

A rather dishonest attempt to misrepresent an argument.

The stuff you left out presents quite a different narrative:

What the Tories don't like are academics and scientists with biased studies who, let's face it, have always hated them anyway, or people who contradict their policies - a dislike shared by every other government of every political stripe in history.

Edited September 20, 2015 by TimG

[Argus]

Are there cases of the OLP doing the sorts of things described in the article?

Yep. They ignored or discredited everything which contradicted their idiotic electricity generation policies, and did their best to hide information from the Ontario Auditor, the Ontario Information Commissioner, and the Ontario Ombudsman. The AG and Ombudsman have both accused Ontario Power Generation of lying to them and concealing information. And the Liberals are under investigation for illegally paying outsiders to delete data from government computers involved in the gas plant scandal.

[Argus]

Just saving this one.

Can you name me any political party or group in the history of the human race who we could confidently say were any different?

Edited September 20, 2015 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

Interesting...it looks like the reluctance to invest in and require access to public information / data may be a Canadian trait and value. A quick wiki peak reveals a lot of barriers and infighting long before Harper's Tories came to power. It has been crippled and underfunded for a very long time. So this is just political infighting for election points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_in_Canada#History

[ToadBrother]

I am saying that your assertion that academic freedom exists is false. In any field conformity to the dominate view is enforced by the peer review system. That said, the Conservative position on the census is strange and if you want to say their actions make it much harder to do some types of analyses then I would agree. The question then is whether these analyses are really that important?

Time and time again you've shown utter ignorance of peer review. Your complaints are no different than the garbage claims of Creationists who attack evolution.

[TimG]

Time and time again you've shown utter ignorance of peer review. Your complaints are no different than the garbage claims of Creationists who attack evolution.

Actually, your refusal to even acknowledge the flaws in the system is more representative of a religious fanatic clinging to an ideology. Whether you want to admit it or not it is very easy to manipulate results to support desired narratives in many fields which makes the 'consensus view' a question of popularity rather than data. The main exceptions are fields where it is possible to conduct controlled experiments that can potentially disprove a hypothesis. In these fields, new ideas can break through the resistance to change by definitively disproving an old idea. Without that ability to definitively disprove something, wrong ideas can persist for decades simply because the entrenched interests come to depend on them. Edited September 20, 2015 by TimG

[Not Yet]

oops! - duplicate post. My bad

Edited September 20, 2015 by Not Yet

[Evening Star]

A rather dishonest attempt to misrepresent an argument.

The stuff you left out presents quite a different narrative:

In context:

What the Tories don't like are academics and scientists with biased studies who, let's face it, have always hated them anyway, or people who contradict their policies - a dislike shared by every other government of every political stripe in history.

Thus, the Tories dislike (and presumably take action against):

i) academics and scientists with biased studies (evidence of bias, or the qualification of politicians to recognize this bias, not shown)

ii) people who contradict their policies

I excerpted ii) since this seemed like the crux of the problem. There was also a claim that ii) is held in common with every other government in history - and I don't believe this. It may be the case that every government has disliked researchers and scientists who 'contradict their policies' but I am not convinced that every government has actively taken action to cripple them as a result.

[Evening Star]

Yep. They ignored or discredited everything which contradicted their idiotic electricity generation policies, and did their best to hide information from the Ontario Auditor, the Ontario Information Commissioner, and the Ontario Ombudsman. The AG and Ombudsman have both accused Ontario Power Generation of lying to them and concealing information. And the Liberals are under investigation for illegally paying outsiders to delete data from government computers involved in the gas plant scandal.

Deleting data is contemptible - and this is why the Liberals are under investigation. The issue is that nothing seems to be stopping the Conservatives, federally.

[Not Yet]

We should be more concerned about the data that NSA has been using to blackmail and manipulate Ottawa. It is my honest opinion that Snowden knows this to be true and is probably why $1B of drugs a year has been allowed to fly into Canada for North American distribution from native aboriginal lands in Quebec and Saskatchewan. The money launderers for this group were named (Nesbitt Burns and Levesque) when American Financial Group was partially exposed in 2001 by the Toronto Star http://www.investorvoice.ca/PI/229.html The full story never was told http://www.opnlttr.com/letter/real-news-americans-canadians-never-got-read-harper-bush-dodged-bullets and when you dig into this you have to know that although Harper was made well aware of this and the below links, he chose to extradite the witness instead of stopping the corruption and arresting everyone involved! http://2006bruce.blogspot.com.

We all know what a transparent regime Stevie has been operating all these years right? Truly this makes the Duffy and Schreiber scandals look like child's play. And in my mind there is no way the American thugs in Washington could get Harper to turn his back on this criminal enterprise on Canadian soil, UNLESS they had something to hold over his head. Snowden should be asked directly about this subject. https://americanfinancialgroupfraud.wordpress.com/ Corrupt American officials have been funding their campaigns with these drug moneys that they launder on Wall Street and then liquidate in Montreal. Just read all the above links before you call me a conspiracy nut. My only question is whether Harper is getting a slice of this pie as well?

Edited September 20, 2015 by Not Yet

[TimG]

There was also a claim that ii) is held in common with every other government in history - and I don't believe this.

You are entitled to disagree - but Argus clearly believes that to be true and omitting that detail from quote completely misrepresents what he said. It is a rather dishonest tactic for someone claiming to be standing up for academic integrity.

[bush_cheney2004]

We should be more concerned about the data that NSA has been using to blackmail and manipulate Ottawa.

Off topic....another thread already exists for that topic.

[Evening Star]

You are entitled to disagree - but Argus clearly believes that to be true and omitting that detail from quote completely misrepresents what he said. It is a rather dishonest tactic for someone claiming to be standing up for academic integrity.

OK, I'll give you that one. Sorry, Argus.

[Evening Star]

The thing is that even if that were true, he would still be acknowledging that the Tories are being partisan and politically-driven in how they handle research - and I would still take issue with it and want to vote against them, even if it were just to get someone newer and less arrogant. He's just saying that other governments do it, too.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Evening Star

[jacee]

Nobody can delete data like Harper:

Now that reporting has switched from print to digital only, government information can be altered or deleted without notice, she says. (One example: In October 2012, the word environment disappeared entirely from the section of the Transport Canada website discussing the Navigable Waters Protection Act.)

Tell me that isn't politically biased destruction of records.

How many Canadians live in poverty now, compared to 2011? We dont know; changes in income-data collection has made it impossible to track. Austerity measures, ironically,

[gonna guess intentionally]

have resulted in an inability to keep track of the changes:

Oh ... imagine that ... throwing everyone into insecure employment and then ... gee ... we don't see an increase in children living in poverty ... because we're not keeping track of it anymore!

Burn the books ... destroy the records and documents ... !

.

Edited September 20, 2015 by jacee