Ontario teachers complaining AGAIN

[Bonam]

All right, how about this then? If you do physical labour, as opposed to sitting at a desk or computer or counter, you're probably working class

As I said before, I don't see the utility of trying to make the distinction to begin with, honestly. What is the importance to you of trying to classify some people as "working class" and others not. Everyone who goes to work for a living is working, whether they happen to sit in front of a desk or not to carry out their work.

Furthermore, there are many types of physical work that pay well and hold relatively high social status, too. Athletes engage in physical labour, for example. Or surgeons.

If you really wanted to make class distinctions of some sort, I think the only way to define these in a relevant way in modern Western societies is as such:

1) Those who live primarily off of government programs (welfare, disability, government retirement benefits with little/no other supplemental income, etc)

2) Those who work for a living

3) Those who have enough wealth not to need to work for a living

Edited October 19, 2015 by Bonam

[Michael Hardner]

I like Bonham's distinctions, keeping in mind that there are still grey areas there.

For example, workfare people who fall in between 1) and 2) ... or business owner-operators who fall between 2) and 3).

[Big Guy]

I think salary is dependent on the specialy of the service that you can provide. I had asked a friend who is a dentist what he felt was a reasonable fee for his work. He answered that he would be a multiple millionaire if he charged half of what a person in pain would be ready to pay when phoning for an emergency appointment.

Another story: A major company has a computer breakdown with all of its terminals down and non functional. An emergency phone call results in a computer expert arriving, removing the panel from the mainframe and delicately taking out a tool that looks something like a long screwdriver but bent at odd angles. He carefully inserts the tools into the computer, performs a series of adjustments and the system boots up functioning as usual. After the replaces the panel he submits his bill for $1,505.00.

The manager asks for an explanation for such a charge for only 5 minutes of work. The expert replies; "I charge $1 for adjusting the proper components and $1,504.00 for knowing which components required adjusting to what degree."

People tend to be paid what they are worth.

[Wilber]

All right, how about this then? If you do physical labour, as opposed to sitting at a desk or computer or counter, you're probably working class

What is this "working class" BS? There are a lot highly skilled jobs that don't involve sitting behind a desk or computer or counter. Are you saying that people who do sit behind them don't work?

[msj]

I like Bonham's distinctions, keeping in mind that there are still grey areas there.

For example, workfare people who fall in between 1) and 2) ... or business owner-operators who fall between 2) and 3).

Don't forget the Elon Musk's of the world: Space X and Tesla derive much revenue thanks to government and government subsidies.

[Scotty]

In today's Globe we see just how hypocritical and dishonest teachers claims of caring about students really are. Their continued threats and demands for ever higher salary for ever less work area always couched in terms of how they're protecting children and education, but it doesn't come much more nakedly greedy than this.

The last deal Ontario high school teachers made with the Wynn government, kept secret, was that money for their raises, after Wynne said there was no money for raises, would be taken from a fund for special needs children.

In addition, the government financed raises for teachers by diverting money from a fund for special programs that help struggling students graduate.

Just... wow. The Wynn government also directly paid a million dollar bribe to the teachers union.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-paid-1-million-to-union-for-labour-peace-with-high-school-teachers/article26900173/

Note that even before this Ontario teachers salaries reached between $74,000- $94,000 ten years after being hired.

Here is a listing of teacher salaries and benefits from 2012. Obviously, they are higher now.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/anatomy-of-an-ontario-teachers-paycheque/article6015968/

[Ash74]

Ok. Would it not be a better idea to just tell us when the teachers are not on a job action?

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/11/04/toronto-high-school-teachers-begin-job-action.html

Oh and can anybody explain to me how teachers getting a quicker reset on sick leave is "For the children"?

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/11/04/toronto-high-school-teachers-begin-job-action.html

God I miss Mike Harris

[Smoke]

Art and Music are examples for Men. Take either of those degrees and you are worth less than if you hadn't.

Hi MiddleClassCentrist, not quite true, at least for a music degree. While a music degree won't guarantee that one will become the next Justin Beiber, it does provide many well paying opportunities. For example....a music instructor straight out of school will typically charge between $30-$40/hour in Ottawa. Studio production and engineering is another career. Music transcribers another. Studio musician also. There are lots of well paying live performance opportunities other than the bar scene, which is the lousiest paying aspect of the music industry.

I will say though, that most people making a living in the music industry are involved in many of the aspects mentioned above, combining instructing, live performances, studio work, etc.

Smoke