Topaz Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 I think many Canadians would agree with this article because of what's has come out in court and Canadians just really want the REAL truth and stop the secrets within the PMO. http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/08/23/opinion/re-open-criminal-investigation-and-question-harper-says-policing-expert Quote
Argus Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Given that what Wright did has been judged to not be a crime of any sort, on what legal pretext would you have the RCMP question Harper on whether or not he knew about it? Edited August 24, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 Which court decided that exactly? Given that what Wright did has been judged to not be a crime of any sort, on what legal pretext would you have the RCMP question Harper on whether or not he knew about it? Quote
Topaz Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Posted August 24, 2015 Right now by the polls taken, the court of public opinion says he lying. Perhaps Harper didn't fire anyone because he felt guilty of THEM trying to protect HIM. Quote
waldo Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 it's just not fair that some have taken to calling them the Royal Conservative Mounted Police! Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 it's just not fair that some have taken to calling them the Royal Conservative Mounted Police! Honestly, I'm glad I don't have to make the decision as to whether to question a PM during an election campaign. But after reading the testimony reports, it sure sounds like Duffy was the patsy that wouldn't quite fit under the bus when he was thrown. It's hard to think of Duffy as a victim but it sounds like the problem originated with him taking the PM's word that he qualified as a resident of PEI. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Honestly, I'm glad I don't have to make the decision as to whether to question a PM during an election campaign. But after reading the testimony reports, it sure sounds like Duffy was the patsy that wouldn't quite fit under the bus when he was thrown. It's hard to think of Duffy as a victim but it sounds like the problem originated with him taking the PM's word that he qualified as a resident of PEI. I'd say you hit the nail squarely. Testimony has shown that Duffy himself, Harper's lawyer Perrin, and who knows who else, balked at the idea that Duffy qualified as a senator from PEI under the constitutional rules, even as outdated as they have become. Harper insisted it was OK, and the rest, to tweak an old saying, is now becoming history. Quote
Shady Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 I think that the RCMP needs to question Mulcair. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Charley Angus reportedly has written the RCMP officially asking them to consider questioning Wright based on recent testimony. Once again we go back to the "takes two to tango" with regards to a bribe. Quote
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah, it's starting to look like it wasn't a bribe or extortion on either side, even if the PM was lying. Quote
Bryan Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it's starting to look like it wasn't a bribe or extortion on either side, even if the PM was lying. Clearly not a bribe of any sort, regardless of who knew what. Edited August 25, 2015 by Bryan Quote
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 All the more reason they should have just come out with it in the first place. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Clearly not a bribe of any sort, regardless of who knew what. I guess you have a certain point there, it seems to be becoming less of a bribe and more just a full blown, forced cover up. Quote
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah it seems like that - and a rather unnecessary one. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 I'd say you hit the nail squarely. Testimony has shown that Duffy himself, Harper's lawyer Perrin, and who knows who else, balked at the idea that Duffy qualified as a senator from PEI under the constitutional rules, even as outdated as they have become. Harper insisted it was OK, Perrin testified that Harper, against Perrin's advice, insisted that the only criterion for the the senate residency was that someone own $4,000 worth of property. So the origin of this mess rests at Harper's feet. Perrin told Harper there was no legal basis for this but hey, this is Harper. He doesn't need to listen to anyone. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah, it's starting to look like it wasn't a bribe or extortion on either side, even if the PM was lying. Shall we wait for the judge to weigh in or just end the trial now? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I guess you have a certain point there, it seems to be becoming less of a bribe and more just a full blown, forced cover up. It sounds like both to me. The PMO paid a sitting senator $90,000 to take a specific actions. The actions were negotiated on both sides. Sounds a lot like a bribe. The only question is why isn't Wright also being charged with bribery? The logical answer is that they needed one side to testify against the other and they thought they had a better chance at getting Duffy. Edited August 25, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 It sounds like both to me. The PMO paid a sitting senator $90,000 to take a specific actions. The actions were negotiated on both sides. Sounds a lot like a bribe. The only question is why isn't Wright also being charged with bribery? The logical answer is that they needed one side to testify against the other and they thought they had a better chance at getting Duffy. Yeah I guess the reason I find myself hemming and hawing a bit over the bribery thing is, in light of current testimony, it almost seems that Duffy had no real say in the matter. Wright was sending a check to cover the expenses and that was that. Which is to say in fact that the wrong person(s) is/are on trial here. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah I guess the reason I find myself hemming and hawing a bit over the bribery thing is, in light of current testimony, it almost seems that Duffy had no real say in the matter. Wright was sending a check to cover the expenses and that was that. Which is to say in fact that the wrong person(s) is/are on trial here. Duffy was attaching conditions to accepting the payoff, such as PMO making the audit go away. In a certain light, I can have a certain degree of sympathy for Duffy. It seems like he was prepared to fight for his view, which was that he was entitled to claim expenses for living in Ottawa. He abandoned his fight on the condition that the PMO pay him off and make sure that his name didn't get dragged through the mud. I guess he didn't think that the PMO would double-cross him. What's funniest about all of this, though, is all the Harper apologists around here saying "nothing to see here, folks". If this was a Liberal or NDP administration, they would be saying very different things. I guess attitudes and values flow from the top down. And so does the hypocrisy. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Duffy was attaching conditions to accepting the payoff, such as PMO making the audit go away. In a certain light, I can have a certain degree of sympathy for Duffy. It seems like he was prepared to fight for his view, which was that he was entitled to claim expenses for living in Ottawa. He abandoned his fight on the condition that the PMO pay him off and make sure that his name didn't get dragged through the mud. I guess he didn't think that the PMO would double-cross him. What's funniest about all of this, though, is all the Harper apologists around here saying "nothing to see here, folks". If this was a Liberal or NDP administration, they would be saying very different things. I guess attitudes and values flow from the top down. And so does the hypocrisy. It has certainly done much to complete the scuttling of Harper's stated commitment to clean up Ottawa and run a transparent administration. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 What's funniest about all of this, though, is all the Harper apologists around here saying "nothing to see here, folks". If this was a Liberal or NDP administration, they would be saying very different things. I guess attitudes and values flow from the top down. And so does the hypocrisy. It appears so far that Harper has been telling the truth all along as evidenced by Chris Woodcock's testimony - taken under oath of course. Let's hear from Ray Novak to see if he can add anything. So if this is the case - what values would Harper have displayed? Just one - fairness - because regardless of murky expense rules, Duffy's claims were improper - and to pay them back! Quote Back to Basics
Smallc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Shall we wait for the judge to weigh in or just end the trial now? I always thought we were allowed to have opinions. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I remember in 2006 when the then head of the RCMP decided to "investigate" Liberal Ralph Goodall on some issue. That publication of that decision caused a 5 point shift in support from Liberals to Conservatives in the last two weeks before the election and won that election for Harper. Ralph was eventually found innocent of any charges or actions after the election but the damage had been done. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2008/04/01/rcmp_likely_swayed_federal_election_report_says.html Can anyone imagine the reaction if the RCMP announced on Oct 1 that they would be "investigating" Harper for bribery or some other crime? I do not think that we will see RCMP involvement in anything during an election campaign. Edited August 25, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
cybercoma Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Yeah it seems like that - and a rather unnecessary one. The problem is now the erosion of trust. If they were caught on something like this, then what about when the stakes were higher? What hasn't been caught? Quote
Topaz Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Posted August 25, 2015 There's enough guilty to go around among the kids in the PMO, Duffy, Harper, the Tories senators involved in the changes to Duffy's expenses. All these guys that are saying they didn't know, its not good enough, if you didn't know you weren't doing your job, including Harper, who is the PM, who should know what is going on his his own office and if he didn't know, then he needs to be fired, for not doing his job, just like the rest of them, especially those senators that had to have broken laws within Parliament. IF, WE, don't expect higher standards within governments, then we will get governments that are corrupt to certain degree! Get a reality check people. Quote
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