Microaggressions

[cybercoma]

Oh and the "Cultural Marxism" phrase is even more stupid when you consider how long it has been since the Red Scare. People who use the phrase are trying to drum up opposition to any progressive social policies based on a mass public hysteria from a generation ago. You know, if you label things like single-payer healthcare or the radical idea of treating people as human beings as Marxism, people will know how "evil" those things are.

Edited September 28, 2015 by cybercoma

[Black Dog]

When your belief system is unfalsifiable, all evidence 'proves your point'.

Ah yes, that old canard.

@ WIP - Men also experience online abuse when playing online games. And studies have shown that it is on average more than women. The problem is confirmation bias, if people are dogmatically trying to find evidence to fit a narrative they will find evidence for it. Interpreting all online abuse women face to be due to sexism is wrong. I've received death threats, rape threats and other online abuse all the time, but I don't go around saying 'oh it must be due to sexism'. A few minutes ago I was told to get cancer on an online game.

We've dealt with this before. Men and women get roughly equal amounts of abuse, but the abuse women face is more likely to be gender based.

A lot of it is about ethics in gaming journalism, but that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative.

LOL. BINGO!

My examples weren't examples of state repression, but repression by mob violence/intimidation.

Nazi Germany wasn't a a state?

[WIP]

The scope isn't limited to gender and race. It includes everything from ageism to ableism. Microaggression theory serves to highlight how ingrained social hierarchies are. It shows that people perpetuate them unconsciously. Ask that sales person and he might say women are equal. He may even truly believe women are equal. Yet he treats them differently because it's so ingrained in his consciousness that electronics are a guy thing. It's not intentional, but it highlights the structural imbalances that people face and those can be a result of anything, not just race and gender.

But, if he gets defensive and makes excuses when challenged about making an assumption that women cannot know anything about electronics, then he's deliberately promoting that imbalance.

I tried to make a similar point with Mr. mathformula about what I noticed coming from women entering non-traditional...formerly male-only occupations. When I read in the literature that men in formerly male occupations sense a loss of social status in our society when a woman gets hired to do the same job...or apprentice at the same job, I realized that I had picked it up also on an unconscious level, judging by the way I referred to work to others....usually avoiding any mention of women getting hired. After 5000 years of the work men do being considered more important than what women do, it becomes and ingrained cultural phenomena that has to be dealt with directly and honestly.

[WIP]

Oh and the "Cultural Marxism" phrase is even more stupid when you consider how long it has been since the Red Scare. People who use the phrase are trying to drum up opposition to any progressive social policies based on a mass public hysteria from a generation ago. You know, if you label things like single-payer healthcare or the radical idea of treating people as human beings as Marxism, people will know how "evil" those things are.

Maybe this is why Frank Luntz and other conservative propagandists are so busy creating and test-driving new pejorative buzzwords these days! Since the Berlin Wall fell almost 25 years ago, younger people can't be scared of hearing terms like socialist and maybe even communist....so they've got to come up with something to keep the masses busy and working for the benefit of the tiny, wealthy ruling classes.

[cybercoma]

But, if he gets defensive and makes excuses when challenged about making an assumption that women cannot know anything about electronics, then he's deliberately promoting that imbalance.

What about when someone is challenged about their unfair hiring practices and they respond with "Well, I guess the best person got the job then."

[WIP]

What about when someone is challenged about their unfair hiring practices and they respond with "Well, I guess the best person got the job then."

At work a few years back, we had an HR manager who accidentally let the cat out of the bag when he bragged in a message through his company email account that 'no pakis have been hired in here since I've been managing this dept..' Till then, he probably had ready excuses every time a South Asian was turned down for a job. I guess it's a matter of where the burden of proof should be!

[Michael Hardner]

At work a few years back, we had an HR manager who accidentally let the cat out of the bag when he bragged in a message through his company email account that 'no pakis have been hired in here since I've been managing this dept..'

I hope the company was smart enough to fire this man immediately.

[cybercoma]

I hope the company was smart enough to fire this man immediately.

And replace him with someone equally ignorant, most likely.

[WIP]

I hope the company was smart enough to fire this man immediately.

Yes. That goes without saying! But, that story reminded me how empty and shallow the conservative rhetoric of "hiring based on individual merit" that's used against providing incentives for hiring minorities and people from various disenfranchised groups actually is: like it or not (especially in an era when good jobs are hard to find), without any goals or guidelines in place, an employer can find lots of excuses to cover for rejecting any applicant based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc..

[-1=e^ipi]

I've heard "cultural Marxism" before (from the Gamergater-supporting Breitbart writer Milos Yiannopolos) but I don't know what "Marxism" actually has to do with what's going on.

I don't really like the term. I generally know what people mean by it, but the concept is basically completely unrelated to Marxism. I've seen some people claim that some of the beliefs of SJWism were advocated by marxists in universities in like the 60's or 70's and that is the origin of the term, but I think that the origins of SJWism are more complicated than that.

First off, since I didn't know what the hell this crap was when I saw SJW tossed around, I look to Wikipedia and find that "Social Justice Warrior" is a concocted pejorative

Before it became a pejorative, SJWs were using Social Justice Warrior and other variants of Social Justice ______. Then it started to be used by critics of SJWs. I need a term to use when describing the group of people I identify as SJWs. If you want to give me a politically correct and accepted term, fine. But as no alternate term for SJWs exists, I'm stuck with using SJWs.

So, the few women who find their way into the He-man Women-Haters Club are just making it all up!

There are plenty of women that disagree with SJWs and identify with #gamergate such as Christina Hoff Sommers, Cathy Young, Alison Tieman, Karen Straughan, Ashe Schow, etc. Heck, look at #notyourshield.

I am sure as hell not going to blindly accept the narrative of the rightwing knobs who create terms like SJW, to try to shout down their critics.

Except, with respect to gamergate, most of the people that identify with the hashtag are left wing according to political compass results. Gamers as a group are generally younger and more left wing than the general population. Take for example Carl Benjamin, who identifies as left wing and is one of the more popular spokespersons for #gamergate. Not only that but the majority of his supporters are leftwing according to political compass results.

[-1=e^ipi]

And if that happened, e^pi*i would frame it as "BestBuy snuffs free speech by issuing Orwellian directive telling sales staff what they can say to customers!!"

No I wouldn't.

If microaggressions were only what you imply they are according to what you have written in this thread, I would have no problem with universities giving advice to staff and students on how to avoid them. But it is more complicated than that, especially when some people are offended by egalitarian beliefs such as 'the most qualified person should get the job' and want to silence those that don't share their beliefs.

We've dealt with this before. Men and women get roughly equal amounts of abuse, but the abuse women face is more likely to be gender based.

It depends on how you quantify it. Generally people that want to insult or troll others will use whatever they think will hurt their feelings the most.

If someone says 'go make me a sandwich', that' isn't a gendered statement, yet it is used primarily to insult women.

Alternatively, if someone says 'you are a loser virgin that can't get laid and should kill yourself', that is a non-gendered statement that is used primarily to insult men (since virginity has a negative connotation for men, where as being a slut has a negative connotation to women; this all relates to reproductive utility theory but that is a bit off topic).

I have gotten insults similar to the later since I am male. Although ironically, it doesn't bother me since I am asexual and don't care about getting laid. Though it does bother me that people assume I am heterosexual.

Another thing you should take into consideration is that years of social conditioning due to chivalry, concepts like 'men shouldn't hit women but not vica-versa', 'men are oppressors, women are victims', 'women and children first', etc. result in it being more socially acceptable to abuse men. So I would view all differences in abuse that men and women face as due to sexism.

Nazi Germany wasn't a a state?

Yes, and it also had individuals acting independent of the state following the ideology of Nazism. Nazi Germany had both state and non-state repression.

When I read in the literature that men in formerly male occupations sense a loss of social status in our society when a woman gets hired to do the same job

And I've read in literature that 'all men want sex all the time' and 'all men are pigs'. Yet I don't fit in this category at all.

You need to stop generalizing half of the population and realize that not everyone is like you, so please stop projecting onto everyone else.

[-1=e^ipi]

What about when someone is challenged about their unfair hiring practices and they respond with "Well, I guess the best person got the job then."

The belief that 'the best person should get the job' is not the same as the belief that 'the best person always gets the job'.

[-1=e^ipi]

an employer can find lots of excuses to cover for rejecting any applicant based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc..

Yeah, like if an employer wants to hire someone that the employer categorizes as a member of an 'oppressed group' in order to given themselves a false sense of moral superiority, then they can come up with lots of reasons to not hire a more qualified individual who the employer categorizes as a member of an 'oppressor group'.

[Black Dog]

Except, with respect to gamergate, most of the people that identify with the hashtag are left wing according to political compass results. Gamers as a group are generally younger and more left wing than the general population. Take for example Carl Benjamin, who identifies as left wing and is one of the more popular spokespersons for #gamergate. Not only that but the majority of his supporters are leftwing according to political compass results.

LOL. Link?

From what I've seen, most GGers fancy themselves some strain of libertarian, but there's also a healthy contingent of far-right folks in there, including white nationalists (witness the widely circulated caricature of Anita Sarkeesian as Jewish merchant). You're "No True Scotsman"-ing the hell out of this.

It depends on how you quantify it. Generally people that want to insult or troll others will use whatever they think will hurt their feelings the most.

If someone says 'go make me a sandwich', that' isn't a gendered statement, yet it is used primarily to insult women.

Which makes it an ipso facto gendered insult.

Alternatively, if someone says 'you are a loser virgin that can't get laid and should kill yourself', that is a non-gendered statement that is used primarily to insult men (since virginity has a negative connotation for men, where as being a slut has a negative connotation to women; this all relates to reproductive utility theory but that is a bit off topic).

Yes, insults directed at men are specific to the individual and not the gender.

Another thing you should take into consideration is that years of social conditioning due to chivalry, concepts like 'men shouldn't hit women but not vica-versa', 'men are oppressors, women are victims', 'women and children first', etc. result in it being more socially acceptable to abuse men. So I would view all differences in abuse that men and women face as due to sexism.

Problem here is the same as with the moronic #AllLivesMatter. It's an attempt to divert focus from a specific issue (whether police violence against blacks or the cultural barriers women face in the gaming community) to a broader one, not to present a solution or to show solidarity, but to obfuscate and distract.

[WIP]

Before it became a pejorative, SJWs were using Social Justice Warrior and other variants of Social Justice ______. Then it started to be used by critics of SJWs. I need a term to use when describing the group of people I identify as SJWs. If you want to give me a politically correct and accepted term, fine. But as no alternate term for SJWs exists, I'm stuck with using SJWs.

I said before that I wouldn't really care about this issue, if it wasn't for people like you who throw it around as a pejorative to vilify what I consider disenfranchised groups, who have every right to make their points about the majority culture....which tends to pretend that everything's okay....no need to investigate further...

So, if it's that important to you to argue that social justice advocates themselves started calling themselves "warriors" and it was not a pack of internet hounds, take it up with Know Your Meme....because...as I stated previously, they were the only ones I could find who made an attempt to find the origins of the term, which they say began with a Blogspot blog called: Social Justice Warriors: Do Not Engage........so, take it up with them! For my part, it seems logical that the typical right wing attack of creating terminology to make weaker groups appear as the aggressors, was in play when that blog was created.

There are plenty of women that disagree with SJWs and identify with #gamergate such as Christina Hoff Sommers, Cathy Young, Alison Tieman, Karen Straughan, Ashe Schow, etc. Heck, look at #notyourshield.

Just like global warming-denying scientists, the stable of antifeminist female aggit-propagandists is small enough to fit into my livingroom.....so once again, Christian Hoff Sommers is the one and only credentialed female academic to present the case that feminism has destroyed modern culture and is harming boys and young men....and that's why the American Enterprise Institute has her on their payroll of go-to rightwing counter-experts.

And Karen Straughan....jesus christ! Every single misogynist trying to justify their hostility against women for the past 10 years links me to these Karen Straughan Youtube videos! Karen Straughan herself is a nobody....but she does have the talent to stroke a lot of fragile male egos in the cybersphere, and is likely making a lot of money at it....since she is very territorial about her importance to the MRA movement, and gets into pissing matches with every female who goes online with videos and attains a relative amount of popularity. Unless the others on your list, have something better or at least something new to argue, I'm not going to bother looking them up!

Except, with respect to gamergate, most of the people that identify with the hashtag are left wing according to political compass results. Gamers as a group are generally younger and more left wing than the general population. Take for example Carl Benjamin, who identifies as left wing and is one of the more popular spokespersons for #gamergate. Not only that but the majority of his supporters are leftwing according to political compass results.

"left wing" is meaningless designation when taken out of certain contexts! I can give you lots of socialist and even marxist-leaning labour activists who are misogynists. The tendency is going to be for those on the left to be more female-friendly because the left will put more emphasis on social needs and concerns than rightwing everymanforhimself libertarians. And that right there is why right wing causes do not win as much support from women as men. But, the exceptions don't prove a rule here either.

[WIP]

Yeah, like if an employer wants to hire someone that the employer categorizes as a member of an 'oppressed group' in order to given themselves a false sense of moral superiority, then they can come up with lots of reasons to not hire a more qualified individual who the employer categorizes as a member of an 'oppressor group'.

You're always looking for that case of reverse discrimination, aren't you? My anecdote is from personal workplace experience, a manager was able to discriminate and hide it, and dismiss suspicions for seven years, until he accidentally outed himself in a careless email post.

[TimG]

Problem here is the same as with the moronic #AllLivesMatter.

What is moronic are people who adopt a slogan with ambiguous meanings and then get mad when others fail to interpret the word in the same way.

[Black Dog]

What is moronic are people who adopt a slogan with ambiguous meanings and then get mad when others fail to interpret the word in the same way.

It's only ambiguous to ideologues or idiots. Which are you?

[TimG]

It's only ambiguous to ideologues or idiots. Which are you?

You clearly have a limited grasp of the English language. The phrase 'blacklivesmatter' can imply that black lives are more important than other lives. The only people who are going read it in the sense that you want are people who are ideologues already immersed in the cult of the victim. As a tool for educating people the slogan sucks. The phrase 'blacklivesmattertoo' would have been much more effective as a slogan. Edited September 30, 2015 by TimG

[-1=e^ipi]

LOL. Link?

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/841842-gamergate

https://imgur.com/Qvo6Ost

http://gamepolitics.com/2014/12/29/editorial-gamergate-political-attitudes-part-1-movement-right-wing/

Which makes it an ipso facto gendered insult.

Yes, insults directed at men are specific to the individual and not the gender.

Gotta love the double standard of Black Dog logic.

Problem here is the same as with the moronic #AllLivesMatter.

Yes, the horror of being inclusive and thinking all lives matter. Clearly it's a microaggression that is due to being racist against black people.

Clearly we need to hijack Bernie Sanders rallies to fight racism. *sarcasm*

[-1=e^ipi]

I consider disenfranchised groups

SJWs are a disenfranchised group now? How? They are the ones that have the power in universities and are trying to silence those that disagree with them. They are the ones trying to make it illegal to disagree with certain people on twitter and are at the UN trying to get the UN to impose internet censorship.

IJust like global warming-denying scientists, the stable of antifeminist female aggit-propagandists is small enough to fit into my livingroom

1. I was referring to all the females that identify with #gamergate, which is far more than big enough for your living room as evidenced by #notyourshield. You are moving goal posts here by now referring to 'antifeminist female aggit-propagandists'.

2. When Galileo was around, the number of people in Italy that openly advocated the Earth revolves around then sun was probably small enough to fit in your living room. The value of an opinion is independent of the number of people that believe in it.

"left wing" is meaningless designation when taken out of certain contexts! I can give you lots of socialist and even marxist-leaning labour activists who are misogynists.

In that case, don't label #gamergate as a right wing movement, or opposition to this microaggression nonsense as right wing.

[-1=e^ipi]

You're always looking for that case of reverse discrimination, aren't you? My anecdote is from personal workplace experience, a manager was able to discriminate and hide it, and dismiss suspicions for seven years, until he accidentally outed himself in a careless email post.

Here is news for you: The world is not homogeneous. Your personal experience should not be generalized to the entire population. Experiences will be different depending on age, where one lives and many other factors.

Edited September 30, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[Black Dog]

You clearly have a limited grasp of the English language. The phrase 'blacklivesmatter' can imply that black lives are more important than other lives.

To ideologues or idiots, yes.

The phrase 'blacklivesmattetoo' would have been much more effective as a slogan.

The people who needed to be reached got it. Ideologues or idiots would have been no more swayed by the clunkier version. But this is all OT anyway.

[TimG]

The people who needed to be reached got it.

So you are saying the entire audience was the minority of the population which is already obsessed with the cult of the victim? Usually these kinds of efforts set higher objectives.

[Black Dog]

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/841842-gamergate

https://imgur.com/Qvo6Ost

http://gamepolitics.com/2014/12/29/editorial-gamergate-political-attitudes-part-1-movement-right-wing/

Interesting. Question is, who decides who is a Gamergater? Your boy Milo, for example, is a raging righty as we're many of the other high profile champions of this cause.

Gotta love the double standard of Black Dog logic.

What double standard?

Yes, the horror of being inclusive and thinking all lives matter. Clearly it's a microaggression that is due to being racist against black people.

Or it's just being stupid. Which is it for you?