bush_cheney2004 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 No I suspect this will be dealt with by 1st Nations and the GG or the Queen. I think not....they haven't done so after decades of lip service. The Queen is more interested in her royal hat collection. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Je suis Omar Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 ROTFL. Are you serious? The entire constitution can be torn up and be re-written if there is a strong democratic mandate supporting it. The idea that the democratic will of Canadians could be usurped a small group of wannabe feudal lords is laughable. The only rights that natives haves are those which the majority chooses to let them have. Nothing will ever change that. I think you are confused as to the meaning of 'feudal lords', Tim. Though there seems to be some plumping for a new genocide - I've personally run across more than a few who are so inclined, I just don't think that'll fly. Quote
Accountability Now Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 No I suspect this will be dealt with by 1st Nations and the GG or the Queen. One question I have on this. Why is it that when ever there is a land claim or other treaty issue, the natives complain to the Queen. But for the residential schools issue which is also a function of treaties is the Canadian government. Should the Brits not be sued as well? Quote
TimG Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 I think you are confused as to the meaning of 'feudal lords', Tim.Nope. I understand it perfectly and that is more or less what many natives want and see the rest of of population as serfs to be exploited. Of course, the "victim" narrative which you are so attached to makes you blind to such things. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 Nope. I understand it perfectly and that is more or less what many natives want and see the rest of of population as serfs to be exploited. Of course, the "victim" narrative which you are so attached to makes you blind to such things. Okay, now I know that you don't understand 'feudal lords', but it was a nice try. You keep pounding away on it like you did with your conspiracy memes. Quote
TimG Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Okay, now I know that you don't understand 'feudal lords', but it was a nice try.It is not my fault that you cannot see the parallels between native groups who believe that, by right of birth, they own all of the land and are owed "taxes" from people living on those lands and the decadent feudal lords of times gone by. It is the same concept. Democracy repudiates the idea that any group should be perpetually entitled to special rights at the expense of others. Edited June 2, 2015 by TimG Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 I was in full agreement with him on this from the beginnig. What was done was done wrong, and it was awful. In most of the timreframe involved though, it wasn't unique, and it wasn't comparable to the holocaust. Do you believe, Smallc, that a genocide has to be both unique and comparable to the Holocaust to be considered a genocide? Or does just one of those things you describe make an event a genocide? Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 It is not my fault that you cannot see the parallels between native groups who believe that, by right of birth, they own all of the land and are owed "taxes" from people living on those lands and the decadent feudal lords of times gone by. It is the same concept. Democracy repudiates the idea that any group should be perpetually entitled to special rights at the expense of others.No, it most assuredly isn't your fault, Tim. After all, it's not your analogy. The remainder is more full of holes than a target at a redneck barbeque. Quote
TimG Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 That a genocide has to be both unique and comparable to the Holocaust to be considered a genocide?A genocide has to involve the deliberate killing of people for the purpose of eliminating the group. Assimilation is NOT genocide because assimilation presumes the people in question will continue to be members of the larger society. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) A genocide has to involve the deliberate killing of people for the purpose of eliminating the group. Assimilation is NOT genocide because assimilation presumes the people in question will continue to be members of the larger society.You really have to get yourself up to speed on the vocabulary that you wish to discuss, Tim.Measure your notion against the actual international definition of genocide and see how it stands up. Edited June 3, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
DFCaper Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Gonna disagree. Church institutions have carried out atrocities to subjugate many people to their purposes. It's all valid. . I am surprised that the churches are not taking more heat over this. During a majority of the time while this was happening, the Church was considered an unquestionable higher authority. That's why they got away with other crimes historically. The government policies were to eliminate there culture, but I don't think they were meant to cause the great harm it did. Probably the people running these programs were probably racist, making it easy to ignore the harm done. We do need to create the conditions to allow the first nations to integrate into our society, but we should work to protect and celebrate there culture. They should be equal to us in all ways as individuals, but there culture needs to be celebrated and force integrated into our national culture. 2nd Monday of June a new National holiday to celebrate their culture? Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
TimG Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 You really have to get yourself up to speed on the vocabulary that you wish to discuss, Tim.I am familiar with the meaning of the words in question. The fact that some people with political agendas like to change the meaning words to suit their agenda does not mean anyone else is required to accept their redefinition of words. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 I am familiar with the meaning of the words in question. The fact that some people with political agendas like to change the meaning words to suit their agenda does not mean anyone else is required to accept their redefinition of words. You keep saying this with the same forcefulness of Argus. With all due respect, stamping your feet doesn't help your position. Bring forth the international legal definition of genocide and locate therein the portion which allows forced assimilation as an excuse for you to avoid a noose. Quote
Accountability Now Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Measure your notion against the actual international definition of genocide and see how it stands up.You continue to trot out that definition used by the UN but refuse to acknowledge why the UN itself didn't call it genocide Edited June 3, 2015 by Accountability Now Quote
Wilber Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Wrangling over a term is just a distraction from the problem at hand. How to deal with the continuing fallout from decades of abuse by a system that made these places a paradise for pedophiles. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Je suis Omar Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Wrangling over a term is just a distraction from the problem at hand. How to deal with the continuing fallout from decades of abuse by a system that made these places a paradise for pedophiles. That is the term, among others, that has seen folks hung by the neck until breath no longer flowed, Wilber. We rule of law people ought not to be dealing with this in such a cavalier fashion. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 In other words, it's not a real genocide, so we made up a fancy term. What makes you think its not real... Quote
Wilber Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) That is the term, among others, that has seen folks hung by the neck until breath no longer flowed, Wilber. We rule of law people ought not to be dealing with this in such a cavalier fashion. Then stop arguing about whether this fits the definition of genocide, discuss the issue and what is to be done about the damage it caused. Unless you just enjoy calling people names. Edited June 3, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Perhaps I should have been clearer. What you have just described is called cultural genocide, although I guess I just assumed you knew that thats what the discussion is about. There's no such thing as 'cultural genocide'. It's a term some people just made up yesterday. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Smallc leaps into bed with Argus. And what manner of creature would want to be in bed with you? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 You have been erroneously stating that the continued existence of a people negates the idea that a genocide has taken place. You have stated this same nonsense a number of times, right after you were corrected, right after evidence/proof was placed right in front of your nose. And now, right here, YOU blatantly contradict yourself and YOUR spurious contention. Nope. You are simply (again) being dishonest. I didn't say that the existence of a people means there was never a genocide. I mocked your buffoonish statement that people could undergo "six generations of genocide" and still be in existence. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 There's no such thing as 'cultural genocide'. It's a term some people just made up yesterday. Sometimes its like teaching frikkin public school. The term was coined as far back as 1944. Not yesterday. Quote
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 No I suspect this will be dealt with by 1st Nations and the GG or the Queen. You're saying that democracy is not a concept 'first nations' would ever willingly embrace? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Wrangling over a term is just a distraction from the problem at hand. How to deal with the continuing fallout from decades of abuse by a system that made these places a paradise for pedophiles. I doubt there was any more child sexual abuse involved than in other church run schools, or in government orphanages, or in fact, in very high priced boarding schools the likes of which the wealthy used to send their kids off to. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Posted June 3, 2015 Sometimes its like teaching frikkin public school. The term was coined as far back as 1944. Not yesterday. You know you're boring me, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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