WestCoastRunner Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 [quote name="-1=e^ipi" post="1043707" timestamp= Well some feminists hate men. Feminism can mean anything from gender egalitarianism to misandric hate ideology. And the perception that myself and others have is that male gender issues are being ignored by society. Again then you should start a thread about male gender issues being ignored by society. We only have one topic in this category of gender issues. Why won't you start one for men? Would that make it seem to feminine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" - Orwell What about equal rights for men or for non-binary-sex-identifying individuals? Even your wording is sexist. Why not say 'as long as they support gender egalitarianism'? Again the focus is always on women being perpetual victims so male issues get ignored, which means society is not as close to gender equity as it could otherwise be. The thread is about feminism. Start your own thread. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ya well that's up to men to do something about that. Why is everything up to men? This is sexist and ignores female agency in society. People of all genders should be trying to move society towards gender equity, not just males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" - Orwell What about equal rights for men or for non-binary-sex-identifying individuals? Even your wording is sexist. Why not say 'as long as they support gender egalitarianism'? Again the focus is always on women being perpetual victims so male issues get ignored, which means society is not as close to gender equity as it could otherwise be. This thread is about discrimination against women. Again, I ask, start a topic about men. What's your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 We only have one topic in this category of gender issues. Why won't you start one for men? I would like to, but I don't have the time right now. I have other issues to deal with such as trying not to be homeless, trying not to commit suicide, obtaining decent employment while being at the bottom of the social justice hierarchy, and dealing with brain damage that was inflicted upon me by other males (and the fact that our society normalizes violence against males doesn't help). Would that make it seem to feminine? Feminine and Masculine are sexist gender concepts which I reject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) The thread is about feminism. Start your own thread. This thread is about discrimination against women. Again, I ask, start a topic about men. What's your problem? So you two admit that feminism, or at least your version of it, is not about gender egalitarianism and ignores male gender issues? And then you two wonder why some people don't want to identify as feminists... Edited April 3, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 This thread is about discrimination against women. Again, I ask, start a topic about men. What's your problem? He's talking about issues related to this very thread. You have a real problem with opposing views, and it stops the conversation from moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I would like to, but I don't have the time right now. I have other issues to deal with such as trying not to be homeless, trying not to commit suicide, obtaining decent employment while being at the bottom of the social justice hierarchy, and dealing with brain damage that was inflicted upon me by other males (and the fact that our society normalizes violence against males doesn't help). You don't have the time to start a topic on men's issues but you have the time to hijack this thread? Quite simply, you don't have the balls to start your own thread on men's issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 He's talking about issues related to this very thread. You have a real problem with opposing views, and it stops the conversation from moving forward. His issues relate to men's issues, not issues facing women. You contributed to this thread so how is that stopping the conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 So you two admit that feminism, or at least your version of it, is not about gender egalitarianism and ignores male gender issues? And then you two wonder why some people don't want to identify as feminists... This thread is not about male gender issues. Start a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 His issues relate to men's issues, not issues facing women. Feminism, and the related subject area, are not only women issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Feminism, and the related subject area, are not only women issues. There are too many issues related to equality issues. They cannot possibly be covered in one thread topic. It's best to break it up into smaller topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 You don't have the time to start a topic on men's issues but you have the time to hijack this thread? I am not hijacking this thread. Lack of acknowledgement of male issues is one of the reasons many people choose not to identify as feminists. And yes it does take less time to write a comment in a thread than to start a new one (or rather, start a good quality one; see my thread of climate sensitivity). Quite simply, you don't have the balls to start your own thread on men's issues. Your attempts at using sexist gender conditioning to control my behaviour will not work. And speaking of my balls, you never answered my transwomen question. If I decided to get a sex change operation, would I now be more 'oppressed' and therefore should have better employment prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Feminism, and the related subject area, are not only women issues. Is it? We have two self proclaimed feminists, Jacee and WestCoastRunner, admitting that their version of feminism does not include men's issues. Mainstream feminism is not about gender equality at all. Which is exactly why many people choose not to identify as feminists. This answers the implicit question of the original post of why people are choosing not to identify as feminists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Is it? We have two self proclaimed feminists, Jacee and WestCoastRunner, admitting that their version of feminism does not include men's issues. Mainstream feminism is not about gender equality at all. Which is exactly why many people choose not to identify as feminists. This answers the implicit question of the original post of why people are choosing not to identify as feminists. This thread addresses women's issues, not men's issues. I have no problem discussing men's issues and I welcome the topic when it is introduced, so please do so. The original post did not ask why people are choosing not to identify as feminists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 This thread addresses women's issues, not men's issues. No, it's about why people choose or do not choose to identify as feminists. You mention #WomenAgainstFeminism in the original post, but apparently discussing one of the main reasons why women would choose not to identify as feminists is outside of this topic of discussion... What is your concept of a discussion topic exactly? Is your view that you just make a topic about how #WomenAgainstFeminism are misguided and how oppressed women are in western society and any dissenting opinion such as why women would chose not to identify as feminists is 'off-topic'? How is that a discussion? That is an echo chamber. This thread addresses women's issues, not men's issues. Men's issues, women's issues. These are all human issues and they are inter-related. You don't think that men making 92% of workplace deaths is a women's issue? Well flip that around. 8% of workplace deaths are female. This is a women's issue. How are we going to reach gender parity on workplace deaths? Also, are you going to answer my transwomen question yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Also, are you going to answer my transwomen question yet? OK ... no, don't count on being more employable as a transwoman. Do it for your own reasons. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Feminine and Masculine are sexist gender concepts which I reject.This is patently ridiculous. I don't know if you actually mean this or if you're simply mocking WestCoastRunner and what you mistakenly perceive as the arguments of sociologists of gender, but this is utterly wrong. Masculine and feminine are plainly understood. Some social theorists argue that masculinity and femininity are performative and thereby socially constructed, as opposed to biological imperatives. Saying you "reject" the notion of masculinity/femininity is preposterous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Euler, you should have a sex change and see how not only your employment prospects change, but your position in the social hierarchy changes. You'll probably find that employment equality is a drop in the bucket of the issues you will face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Masculine and feminine are plainly understood. Some social theorists argue that masculinity and femininity are performative and thereby socially constructed, as opposed to biological imperatives. Saying you "reject" the notion of masculinity/femininity is preposterous. Just because one can understand concepts doesn't mean that one should accept them. I reject masculinity and femininity in the sense that I don't think that support of these concepts do a net good for society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Euler, you should have a sex change and see how not only your employment prospects change Offer me a job that pays at least $ 50,000 per year on the condition that I have to get a sex change operation and I will do it. Although that will not address the fact that young males having difficulty getting their foot in the door for work experience will hurt their future earnings regardless of whether they get a sex change operation or not. While on the topic of sex changes. Transwomen outnumber transmen by a ratio of 3-4 to 1. If women are so oppressed compared to men then shouldn't the converse be true (that more women are willing to become men)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Just because one can understand concepts doesn't mean that one should accept them. I reject masculinity and femininity in the sense that I don't think that support of these concepts do a net good for society.Support how? Edited April 4, 2015 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 While on the topic of sex changes. Transwomen outnumber transmen by a ratio of 3-4 to 1. If women are so oppressed compared to men then shouldn't the converse be true (that more women are willing to become men)?Only if you're so uninformed as to think people get sex changes out of convenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Support how? masculinity: possession of qualities traditionally associated with men. femininity: quality of being female; womenliness. I don't view it as helpful to achieving gender/sex equality to associate human traits with specific genders/sexes. The concepts of masculinity and femininity are very much tied to gender roles. Society will often value someone on how well they fit their gender role and on how many masculine or feminine traits they possess. I reject gender roles and think they make 0 sense in modern society. They made sense in hunter gatherer times though. Only if you're so uninformed as to think people get sex changes out of convenience. People get sex changes for a variety of reasons, the primary one being gender dysphoria. Males are more likely to have gender dysphoria. Why do you think that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 So you're just saying you don't agree with connecting masculinity and femininity with biological sex or genders then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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