Big Guy Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Posted March 14, 2015 How do you establish that a person is serious in leaving Canada to join a terrorist organization? We could force people to fill out forms when they try to leave but some may not tell the truth. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 PLease for the love of god don't join in on conversations you don't understand. If you don't understand, just stay in your very narrow lane... Sorry I do not share in your fear of Islam. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
On Guard for Thee Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 How do you establish that a person is serious in leaving Canada to join a terrorist organization? We could force people to fill out forms when they try to leave but some may not tell the truth. Just to set you straight on something you said earlier, under current law a Canadian citizen cannot be denied re entry into Canada. You could be charged for criminal activity abroad and you certainly can have your passport revoked. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 How about engaging in a proper debate by offering some substance - instead of being a Johnny-come-lately - cherry-picking one sentence, providing absolutely no context, and launching some angry, meaningless rant. Oh what's the matter little buddy? Sounds like you don't like it when your weak debating tactic of creating hypothetical scenarios and hypothetical responses is held under any light. How about you start picking it up a few notches? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Signals.Cpl Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 How do you establish that a person is serious in leaving Canada to join a terrorist organization? We could force people to fill out forms when they try to leave but some may not tell the truth. The same way it is being done now, by conducting investigations and collecting evidence. Obviously not everyone is going to do something to end up under investigation but if they do it is our job not to allow our problem children from going to other countries and slaughtering innocent people. And if they don't do anything to arouse our suspicion, well we cannot do anything about it but ultimately we have a duty not only to ourselves and our allies but we have a duty to the people of those countries to avoid dumping more of our problems on them. There are several aspects to this, one is our own security and that of our allies while the other is our duty to prevent our citizens from wreaking havoc on the population of another country or group of countries. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Sorry I do not share in your fear of Islam. WWWTT I guess simple minds cannot comprehend complex problems... Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 I guess simple minds cannot comprehend complex problems... Is that what you call your fear/hatred of Islam? A "complex problem"? Sounds like Harper is doing an awesome job of playing voters as you like a fiddle! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Signals.Cpl Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Is that what you call your fear/hatred of Islam? A "complex problem"? Sounds like Harper is doing an awesome job of playing voters as you like a fiddle! WWWTT Yes it is a complex problem, but then again what can we expect from you. It seems you are in disagreement with reality. I have no fear or hatred of Islam, I have hatred for those who use that religion to oppress and murder people who don't follow their religion, killing women simply because they are educated, fight for their rights or know their own worth as a human being... You cannot comprehend how people outside of Canada live because you are sheltered and have not seen anything of the world outside of Canada's borders. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
nerve Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) You forgot to mention these girls are going to support ISIS. Who us killing Canadians and her allies. What they are doing is treason and they should be executed never mind arrested.False statement, Isis has not killed Canadians, Canadians joined Isis and died. The forces members who died were killed by the Kurds.Get your facts straight. Presenting lies doesn't do your position justice. Edited March 14, 2015 by nerve Quote
nerve Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Let's face it the Canadian government wants a monopoly on use of force it is that simple. Where it becomes problematic is applying the Canadian criminal code in foreign jurisdictions, that is the problem, and extra judicial human rights violations on suspicion without trial. Edited March 14, 2015 by nerve Quote
Big Guy Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Posted March 14, 2015 To Signals.Cpl - I really do not want to get into some pi$$ing match with you. I believe that we both would like to see Canada safe from terrorists. I am trying to follow your proposed solution - stop them from leaving. As I understand your point, from your previous post, you suggest that the RCMP "does not have the resources" to keep track of potential Canadian terrorists coming back into Canada. But you appear to feel that they do have enough resources to identify potential terrorists here. I disagree with that point. I believe that we have thousands, perhaps tens of thousands "potential" terrorists depending on what kind of profiling is being used. I suggest that there are less than 10 who have left to join the terrorists, most of which have been killed and no examples of any trying to come back. As to allowing them back in - certainly - and arrest them at the border and bring them to trial for their crimes. It seems to me we are creating another kind of criminal - one jailed within the country of Canada. We have people who break our laws so we bring them to trial and then incarcerate them if/when we find them guilty. The other type of new criminal is one who WE THINK is leaving the country to do mischief elsewhere. These people are never judged, just found guilty of wanting to leave to join another country so we incarcerate them in Canada. If someone is breaking any law in Canada then charge them, bring them to trial and then apply the appropriate penalty. What law are you breaking if you want to leave? I find it ludicrous that if we find a citizen of another country has interest in joining a terrorist organization then we deport them - force them to leave Canada. But a Canadian - I guess is deported or imported or supported or whatever to have to stay in Canada. If a Canadian citizen breaks Canadian law then put him/her in jail - if not - then let them go. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
guyser Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 If you knew someone was going to Thailand to engage in sex with children would you still let him go and then hope to arrest him on his return?Im going to guess this 'I' is one of our police forces in Canada. If it is an offense like conspriing to rob a bank or some such, then they could well do an arrest and remove the Passport. (I dont know if it is though) At the very least, suspicion could well bring a visit from one of our police agencies and they could have a chat with the person. If nothing else the person would know hes now marked and or watched. Hopefully that person carries that thought with him as he travels. And should said person go and do the nasty, and proof can be sent back , then welcome him home with open arms. And handcuffs. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 We need to stop terrorists from leaving the country, and we need to prevent them from coming in. Got it. Quote
guyser Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Where it becomes problematic is applying the Canadian criminal code in foreign jurisdictions, that is the problem, and extra judicial human rights violations on suspicion without trial.Well, w do not apply the Canadian criminal code in foreign jurisdictions. Simply do not. We do however apply it here for 'some' actions that may have occurred in a foreign jurisdiction . Huge difference. With your first statement, we couldnt, some actions by Canadians out of Canada are legal where they occur Quote
guyser Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 The other type of new criminal is one who WE THINK is leaving the country to do mischief elsewhere.They may well not be a criminal....yet. But evidence may be that they are planning to be one when they leave. These people are never judged, just found guilty of wanting to leave to join another country so we incarcerate them in Canada.We do? Got any examples of this? We cannot judge (by jury or trial judge) someone who hasnt been charged with any crime. But we sure can and do deny or confiscate a passport to minimize chances they may get up to no good. Contrary to what our resident i***t thinks, a passport is not a right . Its a privilege and can be denied. Quote
nerve Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Well, w do not apply the Canadian criminal code in foreign jurisdictions. Simply do not.We do however apply it here for 'some' actions that may have occurred in a foreign jurisdiction . Huge difference.With your first statement, we couldnt, some actions by Canadians out of Canada are legal where they occurSame stuff, if I break the law in a foreign country it is that country's law that should apply.It is effectively double jeopardy. Meanwhile committing legal acts in a foreign country should not make me liable to criminal prosecution if my act did not extend into Canadian jurisdiction. Further the premise that free peoples bodies can be controlled by a foreign state or have bodily jurisdiction is also rubbish. It is simply political persecution. ICJ may be suitable, but no matter how much your political views oppose those of a foreign state trying people for lawful conduct because they have your citizenship is false especially when people arnt able to have their denunciation of Canadian citizenship recognized because the citizenship act does not allow unilateral denunciation it only allows transfer to recognized partner countries. It is none of Canada's business what people do in foreign jurisdictions. That is contrary to the UN Charter basis of keeping your nose out of the affairs of other states. It is political persecution. Passing info to the foreign state would be doable but criminalizing people for lawful conduct is disgusting. Edited March 14, 2015 by nerve Quote
Smallc Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 We need to stop terrorists from leaving the country, and we need to prevent them from coming in. Got it. Yes, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Yes, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I'm so confused. Black is white, up is down, good is bad. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Yes it is a complex problem, but then again what can we expect from you. It seems you are in disagreement with reality. I have no fear or hatred of Islam, I have hatred for those who use that religion to oppress and murder people who don't follow their religion, killing women simply because they are educated, fight for their rights or know their own worth as a human being... You cannot comprehend how people outside of Canada live because you are sheltered and have not seen anything of the world outside of Canada's borders. When you take into consideration what the US has done with drone strikes and NATO forces, then this comment comes off as pure western propaganda piece! Here's some advise, how about you stop telling how people in other countries how to live their lives! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 False statement, Isis has not killed Canadians, Canadians joined Isis and died. The forces members who died were killed by the Kurds. Get your facts straight. Presenting lies doesn't do your position justice. He's actually right for the most part. Another strong point is that ISIS did not INVADE any NATO country! Keep that in mind when someone says ISIS is an enemy! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Smallc Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 I'm so confused. Black is white, up is down, good is bad. You don't import terrorists, but you don't export them either. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 You don't import terrorists, but you don't export them either. Our military actions overseas can be seen as exporting terrorism from those we are combating. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Contrary to what our resident i***t thinks, a passport is not a right . Its a privilege and can be denied. LOL! Got a link for that? If you break the law in Canada, your rights can be reduced Big diff there little buddy. Either way, keep desperately waving your arms frantically, hyper ventilating and calling other posters names till your blue in the face and are cross eyed little SFFB buddy! WWWTT Edited March 14, 2015 by WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
guyser Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Same stuff, if I break the law in a foreign country it is that country's law that should apply.No one has said anything different. It is effectively double jeopardy.No it isnt. Double jeopardy is trying someone twice for the same act. If aCanuck is charged and prosecuted in a foreign land, then it ends there when he is sentenced. The laws are srtict about that. Meanwhile committing legal acts in a foreign country should not make me liable to criminal prosecution if my act did not extend into Canadian jurisdiction.Can you name a single act thats legal in another country that we would prosecute for upon return? Like smoking dope in Colorado? Nope. Maybe bullfighting in Spain? Nope Getting jiggy w a hooker in Amsterdam?Nope If its legal there....have fun and enjoy your trip. Further the premise that free peoples bodies can be controlled by a foreign state or have bodily jurisdiction is also rubbish.A free person in Canada is never controlled by a foreign state barring a warrant and extradition by treaty for acts they commited outside of Canada. Simple fact. people arnt able to have their denunciation of Canadian citizenship recognized because the citizenship act does not allow unilateral denunciation it only allows transfer to recognized partner countries.So......you WANT to be stateless , you want to be somehwere on this earth ? Im merely guessing but the only place you could be stateless is on Antarctica (even tho there are treaties there...but lets go with this) Bring money, lots and lots of money. Shipments come maybe twice a year, Jan and Feb, cash only. Bring lots of wood and fuel oil, plenty of water too. Satellite phone is probably $10 a minute so Netflix is out. So surfing porn. And now you know the rest of the story. Paul Harvey...Good day! It is none of Canada's business what people do in foreign jurisdictions. That is contrary to the UN Charter basis of keeping your nose out of the affairs of other states.You need to slow down and manage your thoughts here. People are not states. Dont conflate the two. It certainly is Canada's business what others are doing in foreign jurisdictions even though largely they dont care nor monitor....until some time they are asked to, in which case they do monitor. Passing info to the foreign state would be doable but criminalizing people for lawful conduct is disgusting.Good thing that doesnt happen huh? Quote
Smallc Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Our military actions overseas can be seen as exporting terrorism from those we are combating. Sure, if we want to lose all perspective. Quote
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