Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I should have said I consider myself lucky that despite Harper's intent to stack the SC it still wasn't enough to overcome the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. But as I already said about luck... So the Harper appointed SCC will save you from the Harper Government's legislation........makes sense.....so you won't have any rights taken now? Edited February 12, 2015 by Derek 2.0 Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Not at all - are you ok with police doing these things to innocent people ? Doing what things? I certainly disapprove of the organs of the State abusing its citizens, who wouldn’t after all, but I don’t see how people fear C-51 will do that……As I said to you in another thread, the crux of C-51 is the interdepartmental sharing of information the Government already legally has on its citizens. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Doing what things? Posing as protesters, so that they can incite violence and get police to shut down a peaceful protest under false circumstances for example ? I certainly disapprove of the organs of the State abusing its citizens, who wouldn’t after all, but I don’t see how people fear C-51 will do that…… Right. As I (and I think you) said, that can happen today. Are you concerned about THAT was my question. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Posing as protesters, so that they can incite violence and get police to shut down a peaceful protest under false circumstances for example ? C-51 allows that? Right. As I (and I think you) said, that can happen today. Are you concerned about THAT was my question. I suppose my opinion would have to be fomented by a given example.........I could be wrong, but I haven't found the section in C-51 that will allow CSIS to conduct "false flag ops" on Canadian soil.... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 So the Harper appointed SCC will save you from the Harper Government's legislation........makes sense.....so you won't have any rights taken now? I guess Harper was hoping for a different outcome but thankfully even his appointees have read and understood the constitution. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 So you're fearful the CRA will share your information with CSIS and/or the RCMP? Harper is famous for burying shit in his omnibus bills, hoping we wont see it, which apparently happens to some. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 I suppose my opinion would have to be fomented by a given example Ok, you've been given examples of what can be done TODAY. Forget about proposed legislation, do you care that such things can be done today by RCMP, by Federal, by Provincial governments ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) So the Harper appointed SCC will save you from the Harper Government's legislation........makes sense.....so you won't have any rights taken now? It's the only thing in town slowing it down at the moment. In the long run though I don't if it can save us from the doe-see-doe cadence of the politicians dancing around a common centre of fear, over-reaction and appearing tough, tougher and toughest. And that is what will, if unchecked, lead us towards fewer rights for people, greater power for the state and eventual oblivion for both. You tell me how we turn that around...let me guess...go bomb people halfway around the world. We're not going to a place we're heading in a direction. Weakening very accurately describes the process that is dissolving our rights. Like rust it never sleeps. Edited February 12, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Ok, you've been given examples of what can be done TODAY. Forget about proposed legislation, do you care that such things can be done today by RCMP, by Federal, by Provincial governments ? I don’t see how posing as protestors is any different than police posing as would “Johns”, drug users, black market firearms buyers/sellers or would be terrorists etc……..There are distinctions on what can and cannot be done by undercover officers (likewise intelligence officers) so I fail to see the cause of concern……… Edited February 12, 2015 by Derek 2.0 Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Harper is famous for burying shit in his omnibus bills, hoping we wont see it, which apparently happens to some. So the right stripping portions of C-51 are buried within the legislation and cannot be seen................ Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 I don’t see how posing as protestors is any different than police posing as would “Johns”, drug users, black market firearms buyers/sellers or would be terrorists etc……..There are distinctions on what can and cannot be done by undercover officers (likewise intelligence agents) so I fail to see the cause of concern……… I don’t see how posing as protestors is any different than police posing as would “Johns”, drug users, black market firearms buyers/sellers or would be terrorists etc……..There are distinctions on what can and cannot be done by undercover officers (likewise intelligence agents) so I fail to see the cause of concern……… Surely you jest. Undercover cops have been famous for breaking the law. G20 is a good example. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 It's the only thing in town slowing it down at the moment. In the long run though I don't if it can save us from the doe-see-doe cadence of the politicians dancing around a common centre of fear, over-reaction and appearing tough, tougher and toughest. And that is what will, if unchecked, lead us towards fewer rights for people, greater power for the state and eventual oblivion for both. You tell me how we turn that around...let me guess...go bomb people halfway around the world. We're not going to a place we're heading in a direction. Weakening very accurately describes the process that is dissolving our rights. Like rust it never sleeps. So if it wasn't for the largely Harper appointed SCC, the Harper Government would have stripped your rights away by now.......gotcha. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 So the right stripping portions of C-51 are buried within the legislation and cannot be seen................ They are attempted to be buried, as usual. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Surely you jest. Undercover cops have been famous for breaking the law. G20 is a good example. What laws did the police break at the G20? Regardless, I've never suggested all police are infallible, all the time. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 So if it wasn't for the largely Harper appointed SCC, the Harper Government would have stripped your rights away by now.......gotcha. You are catching on now. God bless the SCC, no matter who appointed them. They seem to understand our law. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 They are attempted to be buried, as usual. What was attempted to be buried? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 What laws did the police break at the G20? Regardless, I've never suggested all police are infallible, all the time. How about unlawful arrest. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 You are catching on now. God bless the SCC, no matter who appointed them. They seem to understand our law. Right, so why are you fearful of the legislation, the same legislation also supported by the Liberals? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 How about unlawful arrest. Undercover cops were arresting people? Quote
eyeball Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 So if it wasn't for the largely Harper appointed SCC, the Harper Government would have stripped your rights away by now.......gotcha. Finally. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Undercover cops were arresting people? Undercover is not important, illegal arrest is. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Finally. Good, so what portions of C-51 is the SCC going to have to protect you from? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 The right to privacy for starters. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Undercover is not important, illegal arrest is. But you just said: Undercover cops have been famous for breaking the law. G20 is a good example. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 The right to privacy for starters. How does C-51 change that? Quote
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