Moonlight Graham Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Anyone can create a website. It takes money to get people to look at it. No it doesn't. I don't ever remember any ads being the reason I visited Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, or Wikipedia for the first time, among countless examples. Given the internet and social media, an individual or group can get his/her message out to more people for less money (literally free, with a library card) than at any point in human history. IMO, money shouldn't be a key factor in why someone is elected or not. And donations shouldn't be factors in policymaking. Campaign donations lead straight towards political favours for donors, thus corruption and anti-democracy. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 $1 billion was spent on Romney's failed campaign. I am sure that Steyer believed that his money would work too. He was wrong. Business people make bad bets all of the time. Having money does not guarantee success. So these people are fools? Why does the CP spend so much on attack adds? Are they fools to? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 Well....there ya go....perfect system....no "corruption"...ever. Just ask PM Chretien. Except in the US it is legal. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Except in the US it is legal. So is hate speech and big ass hand guns....big deal. Edited February 2, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 We all know the US system is ought and paid for. Thats why its so f ed up. But here in Canada we love to poke fun at yall Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Canadians sure don't mind spending big money to kiss political ass and get a pipeline approved. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Mitt Romney spent a billion dollars and lost, but he was matched up against a guy who had a billion dollars of his own to spend. Karl Rove's superPAC spent $100 million dollars and became pretty much a punch-line. Probably one of the most memorable moments of the election was Karl Rove getting clowned on live TV by Megyn Kelly. Classic. But overall, I think you'd have to be pretty gullible to think that advertising doesn't impact results. In Canada the system might not be perfect but I think at least we have some balance between the idea of free speech and the idea that one shouldn't be able to just buy elections by spending your opponents into submission. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) ...In Canada the system might not be perfect but I think at least we have some balance between the idea of free speech and the idea that one shouldn't be able to just buy elections by spending your opponents into submission. Even if the system in Canada was perfect...so what ? Canada is not the United States, doesn't have the same population, resources, media channels, or political framework. But it does have a Queen...that nobody votes for. Edited February 2, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 Canadians sure don't mind spending big money to kiss political ass and get a pipeline approved. Your country, your rules. Whether we agree with them or not, that's the deal. The US does the same with all sorts of scumbags in other parts of the world. Not calling you scumbags but that is a reality of international business. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Your country, your rules..... So what's the issue then ? Our rules say that big money finances political campaigns. Keep Canadian rules...in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 So what's the issue then ? Our rules say that big money finances political campaigns. Keep Canadian rules...in Canada. No issue, just observation. Yes, we will keep our Canadian rules. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
TimG Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I don't ever remember any ads being the reason I visited Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, or Wikipedia for the first time, among countless examples.And why did you go to those links and not others? How many of those links existed because someone was paid to make them? Given the internet and social media, an individual or group can get his/her message out to more people for less money (literally free, with a library card) than at any point in human history.What you seem to be missing is the ability to post a message is not the same as getting people to read it. It is very hard to get people to read a website and unless someone lucks out with a post that goes viral. Paid advertising is only real option if someone wants a large number of people to read their message. Edited February 2, 2015 by TimG Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Lets mention a few of those scumbags...how about Noriega, Quaddafi, Saddam, kind of I that order Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 No, our conservative gov doesn't mind doing that. The rest don't really care about the pipe you speak of. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Your country, your rules. Whether we agree with them or not, that's the deal. The US does the same with all sorts of scumbags in other parts of the world. Not calling you scumbags but that is a reality of international business. In fairness, it's really mostly a matter of degree. In Canada, nobody is ever going to get elected if they are opposed by big business. In the US, the presidency and congressional seats might as well have a pricetag on them. And a hefty one at that. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 In fairness, it's really mostly a matter of degree. In Canada, nobody is ever going to get elected if they are opposed by big business. In the US, the presidency and congressional seats might as well have a pricetag on them. And a hefty one at that. Then how did the NDP become the official opposition? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Maybe they spent more money on advertising....oh my ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 Maybe they spent more money on advertising....oh my ! No, the party that won outspent all the others by a huge margin. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 No, the party that won outspent all the others by a huge margin. Not possible in 100% perfect Canada, right ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Not possible in 100% perfect Canada, right ? Possible when you have a conservative PM who wants to drag us into US style price tag politics. Quote
Argus Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 So what ? What "system" is any better ? Well, ours, for starters. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Wilber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 Not possible in 100% perfect Canada, right ? Who said we are perfect? There are debatable sections in our campaign financing laws but at least we have them and they are enforced. The money spent on our elections is peanuts compared to your elections, even when you take into account the difference in population. The bulk of contributions are also spread through a much greater cross section of society, not the .0001%. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Argus Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Why? In a media driven society getting a message to voters takes money. Actually, it has never been less costly to get your message out to interested voters. What the billions buy is high-powered attack ads with lots of color and few facts. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Name one....nearly every other endeavor and enterprise in the U.S., public or private, are directly or indirectly related to financial resources. Yes, your entire country's political system is horrifically corrupt, and getting more corrupt every year. Edited February 2, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Who said we are perfect? There are debatable sections in our campaign financing laws but at least we have them and they are enforced. The money spent on our elections is peanuts compared to your elections, even when you take into account the difference in population. The bulk of contributions are also spread through a much greater cross section of society, not the .0001%. You are quite mistaken about the source of campaign funding in U.S. local, state, and federal elections. Peanuts spent in Canada has less to do with election finance law than the actual resources available. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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