Illegal workers in U.S.

[WestCoastRunner]

Myth. Raise the offered wage and you'll get plenty of workers. 10 hours in the sun too long for workers? Improve conditions by making it 2 5 hour shifts. Offer more short breaks and have stations with cool beverages available around your farm. It's not hard to improve working conditions.

It's funny that you are essentially arguing to keep wages low and working conditions poor.

Farmers have come out and said that they offer comparable wages. They are desperate for workers to pick their produce. I have provided cites for this. Can you provide cites otherwise?

Why would I argue to keep wages low and working conditions poor. Seriously? What's in it for me? Do your research.

[Bonam]

Farmers have come out and said that they offer comparable wages. They are desperate for workers to pick their produce. I have provided cites for this. Can you provide cites otherwise?

Wages comparable to what? Clearly not comparable to what they need to be in order to attract enough workers, if they are so desperate.

[TimG]

Wages comparable to what? Clearly not comparable to what they need to be in order to attract enough workers, if they are so desperate.

Any industry where competition limits the ability to raise prices cannot simply raise wages to attract workers. The choice is either: find cheap workers or close down the business. Now closing down the business could be the preferable option from a public policy point of view but this possible consequence should be acknowledged.

[GostHacked]

Myth. Raise the offered wage and you'll get plenty of workers. 10 hours in the sun too long for workers? Improve conditions by making it 2 5 hour shifts. Offer more short breaks and have stations with cool beverages available around your farm. It's not hard to improve working conditions.

It's funny that you are essentially arguing to keep wages low and working conditions poor.

Corporations have no problem with moving industries to nations that have low wages and poor working conditions.

[Bonam]

Any industry where competition limits the ability to raise prices cannot simply raise wages to attract workers. The choice is either: find cheap workers or close down the business. Now closing down the business could be the preferable option from a public policy point of view but this possible consequence should be acknowledged.

If they can't compete with fair labor practices, then why do they deserve to stay in business? Anyway, other American farmers face the same labor market, so they are on a level playing field with them when it comes to competition. And when it comes to foreign competitors, America subsidizes its farmer more than any country on Earth, so not much to fear there either.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

If they can't compete with fair labor practices, then why do they deserve to stay in business?

Because in some cases they are 'too big to fail' and get bailed out. But that is not so much labour practices as horrible business strategies.

[TimG]

If they can't compete with fair labor practices, then why do they deserve to stay in business?

That is an argument but it should be stated when claiming that they just need to raise wages (i.e. they need to raise wages or close down if higher wages mean the business is no longer viable). Edited February 11, 2015 by TimG

[dre]

Myth. Raise the offered wage and you'll get plenty of workers. 10 hours in the sun too long for workers? Improve conditions by making it 2 5 hour shifts. Offer more short breaks and have stations with cool beverages available around your farm. It's not hard to improve working conditions.

It's funny that you are essentially arguing to keep wages low and working conditions poor.

The problem is, theres pressure to keep prices low that come both from consumers, and businesses that feel they need to compete with business in other countries where wages can be as low as a few cents an hour. Im not arguing FOR these things... just explaining why this is happening.

[guyser]

Well here is my 2 cents, take it any way you desire..

If I had the choice of having a neighbor on a student visa from Saudi Arabia, or an illegal from Mexico.. I'll take the illegal. (Most Mexicans/Latin Americans are Catholic/Christians and not wanting to cut your head off or fly a plane into a building)

So youd rather have the illegal live next door, undocumented, no health insurance, no money...versus a Visa Student who has to have health insurance, funds for the year, no criminal background and documneted up the wazoo.

Its a weird funny world you live in. Unless of course you ascribe all Saudi's (lets be honest, middle eastern types/Muslims) to be terrorists.

Funny thing is.....that illegal from Mexico could be working here for the cartels.

Oops....?

Edited March 6, 2015 by Guyser2

[bush_cheney2004]

....I lived in the United States for 17 years +. I knew plenty of illegals who worked at Tire Repair shops, fast food joints, cotton factories and picking crops. They worked hard to send money back to their families in Mexico so their brothers and sisters could go to school and have a better life.

Yep...most illegals are in the U.S. for employment, and they work jobs many Americans won't do for any wage. From a human resources perspective, Mexico and other Latin nations are far more important to the U.S. than Canada.

[dre]

Myth. Raise the offered wage and you'll get plenty of workers. 10 hours in the sun too long for workers? Improve conditions by making it 2 5 hour shifts. Offer more short breaks and have stations with cool beverages available around your farm. It's not hard to improve working conditions.

It's funny that you are essentially arguing to keep wages low and working conditions poor.

Its funny that you are arguing that domestic workers should be protected from competition in one area, but not others. I sure as hell hope you dont support free trade if youre against cheap immigrant labor. Because both ammount to exactly the same thing. Production and cheap labor are finding each other in a global market.

If we are going to protect agricultural workers from cheap foreign competition, why not manufacturing workers, or engineers? The only difference is that the manufacturing companies are moving production to the cheap labor, but farms cant do that so the cheap labor is moving to them. But the dynamics in play are exactly the same.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yep...most illegals are in the U.S. for employment, and they work jobs many Americans won't do for any wage. From a human resources perspective, Mexico and other Latin nations are far more important to the U.S. than Canada.

Oh really!. We didnt go there to pick your fruit thats true, we went there to run NASA.

[guyser]

Yes, 16 million illegals in the United States are working for the drug cartels, that's why the USA is happiest place on earth..

It is ? Who knew? By the way , do you understand what 'could' means? I doubt it.

You assume

Oops....best stop right there. Reprint iwht 'I know.." thanks in advance.

that somebody from the Middle East on a student visa has medical insurance and does not have a criminal record, you do put allot of trust on foreign governments don't you..

No not at all .

But for the most part I do trust Canadian Govt guidelines for something like this. Afterall, it is our Govt (the one in Ottawa?)who sets the rules, not some foreign govt. Lets call that mistake #1

And those guidelines say that the student must have health insurance when applying and coming to learn here. Lets call this mistake #2.

In a Saudi Arabia stoning a women to death in legal, or hanging somebody for being gay is legal, or beating your wife for showing her face is legal, gang rape as a punishment in the Middle East is legal as punishment oh and as a women, if you report it, you get 200 lashes.. yet they don't have a criminal record when they enter the USA, I feel all warm and fuzzy now.

By any chance is there any relevance to this or do you need some board to rant incoherently on? Can we call this mistake #3....yea, lets !

I lived in the United States for 17 years +. I knew plenty of illegals who worked at Tire Repair shops, fast food joints, cotton factories and picking crops. They worked hard to send money back to their families in Mexico so their brothers and sisters could go to school and have a better life.

Cool story bro.

See mistake #3.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Guyser2

[Bonam]

Its funny that you are arguing that domestic workers should be protected from competition in one area, but not others. I sure as hell hope you dont support free trade if youre against cheap immigrant labor. Because both ammount to exactly the same thing. Production and cheap labor are finding each other in a global market.

If we are going to protect agricultural workers from cheap foreign competition, why not manufacturing workers, or engineers? The only difference is that the manufacturing companies are moving production to the cheap labor, but farms cant do that so the cheap labor is moving to them. But the dynamics in play are exactly the same.

It is not a matter of "protecting" any kind of work but simply pointing out the ridiculousness in claiming that the economy will collapse and food production will cease and we'll all starve to death if cease the flow of illegal migrant workers. Reality is if there isn't an influx of workers willing to work for cheap in poor conditions, then the jobs will adjust to offer higher wages and better conditions, or we'll see increasing automation (creating better jobs), because food still needs to be grown and harvested.

So your whole reply to me here regarding free trade deals is off topic. Furthermore, we've discussed the topic of free trade before, and you know what my opinion is.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Bonam

[guyser]

WTF is with your silly mistake #1 #2 or #3..

They were assumptions you used to denigrate a whole subsection of people. And they were wrong.

Thats all.

I posted facts.. what is legal in some countries, may not be legal in Canada, yet they may have committed murder under their backward ideology in their country, and come to Canada showing no criminal activity..

So by and large, a student who is applying for higher education here in Canada is likely/probably commiting some heinous crimes back in his homeland? And his sponsors, education authorities would have no idea about any of this when asked under the sponsor program?

I suppose it could happen....much like an earthquake , but no one here worries about that. See , a Moose is more likely to kill you on this side of the country than a Muslim student.

I think pik has some room under his bed for you.

Personally, I think Canada and the USA needs to stop immigration from Middle Eastern countries until they start providing equal rights for women and gays in their countries..

And you are welcome to that opinion and no smart ass reply from me.

But let me show you the folly of that thinking....look down....see those shoes/pants/shirt/ipod/drinking cup/remote....did you apply that same standard to your self when you were buying that stuff since it all likely says Made in China? Ya know....communists and all, no equal rights for women nor gays.

But, I wouldn't expect this from the Liberal Elite (hypocrites) in Canada that think an Education and a Job will cure the terrorists from wanting to behead us.

Well my friend , best not to denigrate the Elites when you have utterly failed to put your point across in a coherent manner now is there?

So to turn it around would it be fair to suggest the other side is made up of morons? No , I dont think so.

I have a mental picture of you and Elmer Fudd out hunting Moose and yakking about how scared you are of the terrorists in Canada. Such irony doncha think?

So let me guess Guyser2 - you're one of those posters who thinks you're always right, does the silly point by point quotations and thinks if you post the same crap over and over and over, somebody may actually believe you.

No not really.

I mean , yes....I do think I am always right. But then I realize in the face of calm reasoned thought from the other side that maybe I am not so right. Then I learn so I can be right next time.

Some times the same crap over and over and over, is correct !

Show me the error of my ways kind sir ! Thanks

Edited March 6, 2015 by Guyser2

[Je suis Omar]

Why are Democrats and Obama agasint e-verifty then? Why are Republicans for it? It would prevent illegals from obtaining jobs in America, and thus, depressing wages, and also not allow businesses to pay less. Why? Why is Obama and Democrats against that?

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/migrants.html

Harvest of Shame

The plight of America's farm workers entered the country's consciousness with a bang in 1960. On Thanksgiving Day, CBS broadcast Edward R. Murrow's documentary HARVEST OF SHAME. The film was a graphic portrait of the terrible labor and living conditions of the very people who helped put the traditional Thanksgiving meal on the table. HARVEST focused on workers in Florida's Palm Beach County, otherwise a wealthy area. Murrow famously quoted one Southern farmer as saying "We used to own our slaves; now we just rent them."

The resulting public outcry helped put farmworker conditions on the political agenda. In 1962 Congress enacted the Migrant Health Act, which, among other initiatives, called for the development of health care clinics for farmworkers and their families.

Forty years after the original broadcast of HARVEST OF SHAME, journalists in the same area of Florida that Murrow studied, published an extensive update of the situation for migrant workers entitled, "Modern Day Slavery."