Alberta Election

[Big Blue Machine]

Didn't Klien say there would be a referendum on health care?

[maplesyrup]

Cartman....are these folks for real? They would be laughed right out of town anywhere else in Canada. Hopefully Albertans will give them the boot as well.

Alberta Alliance gets help from U.S. friends

The brochure linked the Klein government with the province's high infant-mortality rate, and was widely denounced by the local press, political commentators and even Mr. Klein himself, who has already branded the new party "scary" and "very extreme." According to a recent poll, the two-year-old party only has support of 9 per cent of decided voters; the Conservatives have 50 per cent.

"I shouldn't be providing advice to the Alliance party, but I will," Mr. Klein told reporters after the ad first surfaced. "It's very gratuitous. Don't use negative advertising. Don't use negative approaches. It's only going to hurt you."

It almost, remember I said almost, but not quite, makes you want to vote for Ralph Klein. Nothing like a few nutbars on the extreme right to give your party a little credibility, eh!

[Guest eureka]

But are they right? What is the reason for the "high" infant mortality rate? There must be a reason why.

[maplesyrup]

Life expectancy for men, infant mortality rise: Statistics Canada

But are they right? What is the reason for the "high" infant mortality rate? There must be a reason why.

Yea, what a great reason to vote for a extreme right wing party that would decimate health care even more than Klein has done.

[Guest eureka]

Apart from that being the kind of party that it is, do you not find the rates in Alberta disturbing? There has to be reason for such a markedly higher rate of, in particular, infant mortality.

It suggests that there is something very wrong in the cre given to expectant mothers. Is that something wrong in Alberta's health care system?

Perhaps it is just the fear of unaffordable private care that is frightening people to death. Possibly this should be an election issue.

[kimmy]

There certainly must be some explanation for the infant mortality rate being 1.9 over the national average and for it rising in 4 straight years. Immediately pointing to the healthcare system might be premature, however. The article mentions Alberta having lower birth weights than the national average, and a higher number of pre-term births. That, to me, suggests maybe there's some environmental or cultural factor coming into play.

It might be as simple as Alberta having a higher proportion of native population than the national average, which (as horrible as it sounds) might be enough to explain the higher infant mortality rate on its own.

-kimmy

[Guest eureka]

I don't think Alberta does have a higher than average proportion of native population: I could be wrong there. However, the higher rate in Alberta could not be explained by that alone. A much higher rate amongst "native," as we know there is, would have only a small impact on a population the size of Alberta's. It would be far more significant in Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

My own speculation would be that is a consequence of Klein's treatment of the poor in the province. Drastic cuts to welfare payments have pushed many deeper into poverty with the inevitable death and disease that accompanies poverty. Infant mortality has always had a strong correlation to poverty.

Poverty rates increased dramatically during Klein's tenure as they did in Ontario under Harris. I would be curious to find the rates of infant mortality for Ontario - but not curious enough to try to find them.

[caesar]

I think you hit the nail on the head eureka; if these babies come from impoverished families that are not eating well; it would explain the low birth weight and infant mortality. A healthy well fed mother generally produces healthy children.

[takeanumber]

Klein is so arrogant,

(The Match Game Crowd goes "How arrogant was he!?!?!")

Klein is so arrogant, when they held a debate in his riding, he didn't go, he sent <<<BLANK>>> instead.

It's an esoteric reference, but I'm sure some of our older members will get it.

[kimmy]

I don't think Alberta does have a higher than average proportion of native population: I could be wrong there. However, the higher rate in Alberta could not be explained by that alone. A much higher rate amongst "native," as we know there is, would have only a small impact on a population the size of Alberta's. It would be far more significant in Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

My own speculation would be that is a consequence of Klein's treatment of the poor in the province. Drastic cuts to welfare payments have pushed many deeper into poverty with the inevitable death and disease that accompanies poverty. Infant mortality has always had a strong correlation to poverty.

Poverty rates increased dramatically during Klein's tenure as they did in Ontario under Harris. I would be curious to find the rates of infant mortality for Ontario - but not curious enough to try to find them.

Native population was just a guess. Given the completely disasterous health statistics amongst Canada's aboriginal populace, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if higher infant mortality was among them.

Alberta has over 5% native populace, as opposed to under 2% in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes and 4% in BC. However, Manitoba and Saskatchewan do indeed have over 13% native population, so obviously my guess is off the mark.

-kimmy

[kimmy]

Klein is so arrogant,

(The Match Game Crowd goes "How arrogant was he!?!?!")

Klein is so arrogant, when they held a debate in his riding, he didn't go, he sent <<<BLANK>>> instead.

It's an esoteric reference, but I'm sure some of our older members will get it.

The whole campaign strategy smacks of arrogance. It's unfortunate and off-putting. "The election is not the time to talk about issues. We'll explain our plans after we're re-elected." Blah. Up yours, Ralph.

-kimmy

[caesar]

Kimmy, I would guess you do not like Klein nor the NDP.

[Cartman]

The Alliance is the only news maker in this election because they are going nowhere fast. This is really interesting (for all Canadians) even though this is a boring election because it is like the Canadian Progressive Conservatives against the screwball Republican wannabees. Kinda weird when Klein is the commie left-winger in a contest!

It is also an interesting if confusing thought test for some posters on this forum. Are you in favour of the Progressive Conservatives or the Alberta Alliance? And please do not say they are the same because even King Ralph does not think so. Truth is, Albertans are right-wing and small "c" conservative, but they are most definitely not Republican. This will be demonstrated when the NDP does better than the Alliance and likely the Liberals (I would not be surprised if the Social Credit does better than the Alliance). So, the "Republican wannabee Bush lovers" will soon realize that they are truly the minority after this election.

[Cartman]

I attended a lecture on health care earlier this year and an economist compared Alberta's spending over the last 2 decades to other provinces. In reality, Alberta spends a little more on health care than most other provinces. It was the first province to initiate significant cuts but also the first to start spending again. In reality, Quebec is " the health care boogeyman" as they privatize the most. As I know this economist to be pretty politically neutral, I tend to suspect that she is correct.

[August1991]

I suspect the age structure of a province's population explains some of the differences in health care usage.

In addition, the health services are so supply constrained that many anomalies might appear. (People don't see a doctor because they can't be bothered to deal with the bureaucracy and wait and wait and wait.)

Despite appearances, Quebec is pragmatic in health and education. Quebec has the highest proportion of students in private secondary schools.

Lastly, Alberta is a rich province. Rich people spend proportionately more of their higher incomes on health care (and travel) than poor people do. (This idea explains in part why Americans spend more per capita on health care than we do.)

[maplesyrup]

Looks like Klein will get another majority, although it may be a reduced one according to a poll out today.

According to the poll results, Taft is not far off the mark. Tracking the momentum of each candidate since the campaign began, the poll found both Taft and NDP Leader Brian Mason enjoying a positive upswing among the electorate.

Klein, on the other hand, has generated negative momentum to the tune of -25. Klein's approval rating has also dropped to its lowest level in a decade. The 56 per cent of Albertans who approve of his performance represent a nine per cent drop since the fall.

[Cartman]

I cannot recall a more boring election in my entire life. Even the civic election stirred up more interest. Klein and the PC's are really conceited because it does not even seem like they are trying. The PC's will win easily, but they will do damage in terms of the popular vote and encourage the opposition to work harder. I suspect very low voter turnout.

[Guest eureka]

Will the issue of MPP's pensions get much play in the final stages? I saw something this morning about generous severance payments ans pensions to politicians (klein et al) who once swore they would not accept pensions.

[Cartman]

Eureka, perhaps pensions will not make the news, but ballot destruction will, and it will not be tolerated in this hotly contested....contest. People will respect our authoriti! (no typo).

http://calgary.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/...ot20041119.html

Edmonton  —  A young Edmonton voter has protested what she calls a gap in democracy by eating her vote at an advance poll.

Leah Handerson boiled her ballot in chocolate sauce, poured it into a piecrust and then swallowed the concoction Friday at an Edmonton-Mill Creek polling voting station.

Poll supervisor Dennis Koroluk has promised to pursue the matter with Elections Alberta. It's illegal to destroy a ballot, which is considered an official government document.

[Guest eureka]

My wife wamts the recipe!

[Cartman]

She has really made me feel guilty because I am often too lazy to make Kraft Dinner. If she can make fondu with a ballot then...

[Big Blue Machine]

Don't talk about food, talk about the Alberta election. We need good old Peter Lougheed back.

[kleinfeld]

It's all about voter distribution. Over 65% of the electorate lives in Edmonton, Calgary and Lethbridge, yet you listen to the political dialogue and urban issues get little play. The rural voter has way too much weight. That's also way the Kleinsters are running a keep away the vote campaign: polls don't open until 9 when traditionally they open earlier to allow working people a chance to vote before work; and they didn't send out maps to the polling centres which is traditionally done.

[Hawk]

Ok you all need to shut the f*k up.

Seriously, all I have read is page after page of 'Albertan ignorance' and 'Klein worship' and blah blah blah.

You that dont live in Alberta should just shut up, seriously if I hear another word out of your damn mouths I am going to puke. I am so pissed off right now, I couldn't believe all the bashing from OTHER provinces!

Is your province out of debt? Do you have nice roads EVERYWHERE? Do you have developed economies that promote a surplus rather than a deficit? Do you help support other provinces (that then turn around and bash you) and STILL end up with a surplus?

Ralph Klein is an Albertan, he is a common man that doesn't care about the way YOU think politics should be done, instead he does what we elect him to do... if you ask me WE are the sane ones out west, you keep electing fsking Liberals that lie every election and only succeed in breaking their election promises.

First thing you should realize about Alberta and most Albertans: We ARENT Liberal, so shut the f*k up and stop whining things like 'AISH isn't adequate' and other socialist crap... the reason we elect PCs is because they agree with us, they aren't about to throw away all our money to bums ( and if you had half a brain you would know that at least 80% of AISH is supporting bums ). We believe in a hand up and NOT a hand out.

Second important thing about Alberta, we like politicians that are REAL people. Ralph Klein is a real person, he has real problems, he is honest, he has Alberta's interests at heart, and he is a human being.Those are the reasons he keeps getting re-elected, he is saying to Ottawa what we want him to say and he is running our province the way we want it to run... and if you compare us to the rest of Canada you have alot of nerve telling us WE are the ignorant ones.

If you have some REAL reasons to call Albertans ignorant be at least respective enough to keep from bashing, as it will simply result in another counter-bash post like this.

PS Cartman I swear to god if you say one more unbased thing about Alberta or Ralph Klein you are going to be my #1 most hated person on this board.

[Guest eureka]

I completely agree with you. Ralph Klein is a "common man." Hardly an endorsement for a Premier.