Smallc Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Great. The projections are not good. Manage the business better without making it difficult or impossible for some people to get their mail. There's been a massive swing in profitability when they raised the price of stamps. Cutting door-to-door service is unnecessary. Managing is exactly what they're doing. Reducing employees by ending door to door service is the best way to cut costs. Quote
Mighty AC Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Great. The projections are not good. Manage the business better without making it difficult or impossible for some people to get their mail. There's been a massive swing in profitability when they raised the price of stamps. Cutting door-to-door service is unnecessary. There are about 13.5 million households in Canada and Argus mentioned that only 5 million currently receive door-to-door service. Are you advocating that we provide that type of service to everyone or just that we raise stamp prices to subsidize those that currently have it? I would guess that relatively few people are unable to make the short trip to mail superboxes. I would also guess that people who could not walk a couple hundred meters require other assistive services in order to reside and survive in a private dwelling. Wouldn't it be more cost effective, efficient and effective to subsidize the mobile health, food, repair, cleaning and maintenance type services that are required by the elderly and disabled? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
segnosaur Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) That's not true at all. You actually think everyone living in a single-family dwelling is capable of going to the mailbox every day or several times a week? The issue is being brought to court partially on behalf of people with disabilities and the elderly. First of all, a "single family home" requires signifcant upkeep... cutting the grass, shovelling the sidewalk. (Not to mention all of the errands the individual would have to run on a regular basis.) That means one of 2 possibilities: Either the individual is mobile enough to handle those tasks themselves, or they have others (either paid, volunteer or family) to carry out those tasks. If an individual is capable of performing those tasks (or having others perform them), then they can make similiar accomidations to pick up mail. There is no need to subject the 99.9% of us Canadians to higher taxes or increased fees just because some infintesimaly small number of Canadians somehow manages to live in (and maintain) a single family home (with all the work that involves) yet can't figure out any options to handle a trip to the mailbox. Secondly, last I heard, approximately 4 million Candians are currently served by "super mailboxes". Yet we haven't exactly been overrun by hords of elderly seniors getting lost in snowbanks, and so far I've never been woken up by the sound of breaking hips as elderly grandmothers try to make their way to the super mailbox in my community. Canada Post is turning profits. There has only been 2 years in the last 15 that it didn't... Ok, lets look at that little "fact", shall we? First of all, a decade ago they were turning profits very regularly. But given changes in technology and demographics, what happened 10-15 years ago is far less relevant to what's happening now or what's projected to happen in the future. So pointing to "the past 15 years" is a poor starting point. The important thing is in the last few years they've had more and more losses. Secondly, as another poster pointed out, while they may have turned a profit recently, that might be due to accounting practices... It gets even worse than that... At least some of their efforts to avoid losses have been due to them selling off assets... From: http://globalnews.ca/news/1023396/seven-things-to-know-about-canada-posts-plan-to-axe-mail-service/ Canada Post has been selling off century-old offices and real estate to avoid losses but that’s not a long-term solution. Lastly, it should be noted that Canada post handles both parcel and "regular mail". Quite often, profits from their parcel delivery business subsidizes the regular mail delivery. That's not exactly a sound delivery practice. If I owned 2 stores, one that earned a profit every year, and one that lost money every year, I don't thiink it would be that unreasonable for me to take steps to fix the problems at the money-losing store, even if combined the stores earn a profit. Edited October 21, 2014 by segnosaur Quote
Mighty AC Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) You know what this is? It's playing to the anti-union conservative base, just like the cuts to the public service that Argus was talking about earlier. It plays to the dim-witted race-to-the-bottom mentality that these people have. You are right here. I am always baffled that cons love to talk job numbers, yet simultaneously seek to erode wages and benefits. The race to the bottom is certainly unsustainable. However, so is waste. Protecting an unnecessary service simply because the jobs are well compensated doesn't make sense to me. If the cons are so concerned about mail costs, it would be nice to see them change the rules on political propaganda mail. This practice which, has been abused by our current government, costs Canada Post millions. Edited October 21, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) A lot of time I get small parcels (from Amazon) delivered through Canada Post (giving that they have a Monopoly they are currently the more cost effective way of delivering smaller parcels) Since Purolator is owned by Canada Post, I would expect that parcels shipped through Canada Post should be moved through them so a potentially valuable product that I'm paying extra to have delivered ISN'T going to a community box. Edited October 21, 2014 by Boges Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Ahhhh so it is about the jobs and not the usefulness of the service. Gotcha! That's why Harper's doing it. There's no argument you can make that this makes the service more "useful" for people. It does the exact opposite of that. Quote
segnosaur Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 A lot of time I get small parcels (from Amazon) delivered through Canada Post (giving that they have a Monopoly they are currently the more cost effective way of delivering smaller parcels) Since Purolator is owned by Canada Post, I would expect that parcels shipped through Canada Post should be moved through them so a potentially valuable product that I'm paying extra to have delivered ISN'T going to a community box. Not sure if all super-mailboxes are like this, but on mine, there are a couple of "super-sized" mail boxes... if a large package arrives that won't fit in the regular box (you know, large pornography orders, etc.) they will put it in the big mail box, and leave a key for it in your small box. When you get your package, you just put the key back in the mailbox. However, that is just for packages from "canada post". Actually, in a way, Super mailboxes can be safer... mail delivered to you will sit in a locked box until you pick it up. On the other hand, those with household delivery (with an exterior mail box) run the risk of having their mail stolen before they pick it up. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 And if we can negate the hardship those individuals would face? Then what? Tell me, aside from the disabled/elderly question what other issues do you have? So just put aside the huge problem with this change that's only going to get worse as Canadian demographics age and more people face mobility and disability issues? That is the issue. Quote
Smallc Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Oh save it. Rural areas are more elderly than urban areas, and everyone seems to do just fine. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Managing is exactly what they're doing. Reducing employees by ending door to door service is the best way to cut costs. Considering it hasn't even been implemented yet and they're way in the black this year compared to last, something tells me you're ignoring the fact that firing people isn't the only way to manage their bottom line. Quote
Argus Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Posted October 21, 2014 So what do all of these people who are part of the 66% without home mail delivery do now? How many of these people live in downtown condos and apartment buildings? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
segnosaur Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Great. The projections are not good. Manage the business better... You know, I'm probably going to be sorry I asked that, but just what exactly do you think that they can do to "manage the business better"? Since you seem to have all the answers (despite ignoring that Canada post's recent "profits" have largely come from selling off buildings and one-time accouting tricks), perhaps you can tell us your big master plan. Quote
Smallc Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Considering it hasn't even been implemented yet and they're way in the black this year compared to last, something tells me you're ignoring the fact that firing people isn't the only way to manage their bottom line. The future was, according to projections, very bleak without this change. Now it's not. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Oh save it. Rural areas are more elderly than urban areas, and everyone seems to do just fine. And? They haven't even implemented the change yet. How would you know "everyone seems to do just fine?" You don't even recognize the problems people are saying they will have getting their mail. You're sitting here telling the elderly and disabled to STFU because you want Canada Post to make more money, as it's already profitable. It's supposed to be self-sustaining. Not profit generating. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 You know, I'm probably going to be sorry I asked that, but just what exactly do you think that they can do to "manage the business better"? Since you seem to have all the answers (despite ignoring that Canada post's recent "profits" have largely come from selling off buildings and one-time accouting tricks), perhaps you can tell us your big master plan. Considering they're turning a huge profit this year, I think they've managed just fine without eliminating door-to-door service. Quote
segnosaur Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Considering it hasn't even been implemented yet and they're way in the black this year compared to last, something tells me you're ignoring the fact that firing people isn't the only way to manage their bottom line. Once again... 2 of the reasons they are in the black is because: - They are selling off some fo their buildings (as I pointed out in a previous post). This way to stay in the black is at best a short term measure - The parcel delivery business is subsidizing the first-class mail business. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 The future was, according to projections, very bleak without this change. Now it's not. Funny how just about every other country on the planet doesn't have complete idiots running their postal service and manage just fine. Quote
Smallc Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 And? They haven't even implemented the change yet. How would you know "everyone seems to do just fine?" You don't even recognize the problems people are saying they will have getting their mail. You're sitting here telling the elderly and disabled to STFU because you want Canada Post to make more money, as it's already profitable. It's supposed to be self-sustaining. Not profit generating. I'm telling you that most of the country, including where I live, hasn't got door to door service in decades of ever at all. These rural areas are very elderly overall, yet people get their mail. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Once again... 2 of the reasons they are in the black is because: - They are selling off some fo their buildings (as I pointed out in a previous post). This way to stay in the black is at best a short term measure - The parcel delivery business is subsidizing the first-class mail business. Sure. I guess it has nothing to do with them raising postage. That had no effect on their bottom line, I guess. Quote
segnosaur Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Considering they're turning a huge profit this year, I think they've managed just fine without eliminating door-to-door service. You think they managed fine? I don't think you put much actual thought into things... Here's a question... I pointed out (With a reference!) that one of the reasons they are turing profits is because they are selling off some of their buildings. Just how long do you think they can continue turning a profit by selling off buildings? Quote
Smallc Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 Funny how just about every other country on the planet doesn't have complete idiots running their postal service and manage just fine. You don't notice the giant difference? And are those all profitable? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 I'm telling you that most of the country, including where I live, hasn't got door to door service in decades of ever at all. These rural areas are very elderly overall, yet people get their mail. So you're calling the people who have issue with this liars? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) You don't notice the giant difference? And are those all profitable? Why does it have to be profitable? It's a public service. Edited October 21, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Posted October 21, 2014 You think they managed fine? I don't think you put much actual thought into things... Here's a question... I pointed out (With a reference!) that one of the reasons they are turing profits is because they are selling off some of their buildings. Just how long do you think they can continue turning a profit by selling off buildings So raising postage had nothing to do with their better financial position then? Quote
Argus Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) I'm telling you that most of the country, including where I live, hasn't got door to door service in decades of ever at all. These rural areas are very elderly overall, yet people get their mail. No one lives in a rural area who doesn't have a car. That's far from the case in the city. Also, the less physically able you are the less likely you are to be living in a rural area, not unless you have a healthy full-time caregiver or partner. This is not a big deal for me. I'm healthy and have a car. But there is no question some frail seniors are going to die over this, slipping and falling on the ice on their way to or from their mailbox. Edited October 21, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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