NDP and Liberal Coalition

Argus · July 30, 2015

Yes, and Martin said health care was fixed, and set a ten year time limit on it. So? [waldo: yours is a stoopid nonsensical statement

The fact you think my statement is uh, 'stoopid' is merely a reflection on your own truly massive ignorance - and I use the term with respect to both popular definitions. Ie, you have no idea of what you'er talking about and express your lack of knowledge in a Donald Trump type blowhard fashion completely lacking in manners.

To start with, yes, Paul Martin said of the accord that health care was "Fixed for a generation". Apparently you never heard this, and certainly don't blame him for being wrong. One does not say health care is now 'fixed for a generation' while putting in place a program which will not fix it, but merely bandage it until some day in the future another PM fixes it.

By extending it another five years? [waldo: no - Harper threw it all away... as in threw the Health Accord away!

There simply are no words to express how inane that statement was. Is it possible to even exceed in in sheer communication incompetence? I'm certain you will try.

Tell me, since it's your boy who refuses to engage provincial premiers, how would health care be reformed under a Harper Conservative model?]

At any time, feel free to quote where I ever made or even hinted at any such claim.

Not that it matters as I'm quite sure you'll invent some new straw man to launch bombastic attacks on.

i appreciate you admit Harper doesn't have the metal to work with Canada's premiers... on anything!

Are you actually incapable of debating or rebutting what I actually said, rather than inventing something else to respond to? I'm honestly curious. Just how poor are you communication skills?

no - I qualified how I used the word;

I dub thee 'Donald' and will refer to you as such henceforth.

Now then, Donald, could you give us a brief summary of how either the NDP or Liberals plan to fix health care? Because so far their pronouncements on this subject resemble crickets chirping.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Argus

Argus · July 30, 2015

Harper can't deal with face to face debates with the Premiers, that's why he talks to SOME of the phone.

Nothing is going to be solved through public meetings with the premiers. Negotiations and agreements are reached in private, not in public

Argus · July 30, 2015

Harper has divided the country, just like he does to his own team: He sets people against each other, rules by fear.

The worst kind of leader.

.

Awwww, are you afraid of Harper? Awwwww. :rolleyes:

waldo · July 30, 2015

I dub thee 'Donald' and will refer to you as such henceforth.

Now then, Donald, could you give us a brief summary of how either the NDP or Liberals plan to fix health care? Because so far their pronouncements on this subject resemble crickets chirping.

Argas, clearly... I've touched a nerve! Highlighting your boy Harper's antics in his perpetual move to privatize health care has quite obviously set you off in a tirade. I appreciate you have no counter to the fact Harper refuses to collectively engage provincial premiers... not just on health care... on anything. Well, no counter other than your bombastic self rising to the top! Obviously, asking you to speak to how health care would be reformed under a Harper Conservative model has you flummoxed to the point you've completely wigged out! My work is done here! :lol:

Topaz · July 30, 2015

Sure they do, anyone with a brain would ...its the Tory party!!!

Keepitsimple · July 30, 2015

Argas, clearly... I've touched a nerve! Highlighting your boy Harper's antics in his perpetual move to privatize health care has quite obviously set you off in a tirade. I appreciate you have no counter to the fact Harper refuses to collectively engage provincial premiers... not just on health care... on anything. Well, no counter other than your bombastic self rising to the top! Obviously, asking you to speak to how health care would be reformed under a Harper Conservative model has you flummoxed to the point you've completely wigged out! My work is done here!

The fact you think my statement is uh, 'stoopid' is merely a reflection on your own truly massive ignorance - and I use the term with respect to both popular definitions. Ie, you have no idea of what you'er talking about and express your lack of knowledge in a Donald Trump type blowhard fashion completely lacking in manners.

To start with, yes, Paul Martin said of the accord that health care was "Fixed for a generation". Apparently you never heard this, and certainly don't blame him for being wrong. One does not say health care is now 'fixed for a generation' while putting in place a program which will not fix it, but merely bandage it until some day in the future another PM fixes it.

There simply are no words to express how inane that statement was. Is it possible to even exceed in in sheer communication incompetence? I'm certain you will try.

At any time, feel free to quote where I ever made or even hinted at any such claim.

Not that it matters as I'm quite sure you'll invent some new straw man to launch bombastic attacks on.

Are you actually incapable of debating or rebutting what I actually said, rather than inventing something else to respond to? I'm honestly curious. Just how poor are you communication skills?

I dub thee 'Donald' and will refer to you as such henceforth.

Now then, Donald, could you give us a brief summary of how either the NDP or Liberals plan to fix health care? Because so far their pronouncements on this subject resemble crickets chirping.

Posed the same question to OGFT......got crickets. Waldo's up to his usual tricks - never answering questions - then posing his own inane ones - and demanding answers.

Topaz · July 30, 2015

I feel sorry for the PC party because if they ever get a chance to reform themselves federally, under "PC" and not "Conservative" Harper has really made it bad for them but I think more Canadians would like to see the Conservative gone and the PC's back.

waldo · July 30, 2015

Posed the same question to OGFT......got crickets. Waldo's up to his usual tricks - never answering questions - then posing his own inane ones - and demanding answers.

ya ya, simply Simple! I guess, to you, asking how health care would be reformed under a Harper Conservative model... to you, that's clearly an "inane question"! :lol: It is the government of the day... apparently has been for a while! Clearly it's most inconvenient for you, as such a die-hard partisan supporter of Harper Conservatives, to actually have to consider just how your boys might presume to undertake health care reform... particularly since Harper refuses to engage the provinces!

.

Keepitsimple · July 30, 2015

ya ya, simply Simple! I guess, to you, asking how health care would be reformed under a Harper Conservative model... to you, that's clearly an "inane question"! It is the government of the day... apparently has been for a while! Clearly it's most inconvenient for you, as such a die-hard partisan supporter of Harper Conservatives, to actually have to consider just how your boys might presume to undertake health care reform... particularly since Harper refuses to engage the provinces!

.

Yes it is inane.....when Healthcare is a major component of why you want to throw the bums out - and your premise is that the Federal government should be the ones to undertake Health Care reform - you'd better examine what the other guys propose to do! We know what Harper's approach is - here's the money - now get on with your responsibility of delivering Healthcare services - use money wisely, make improvements, measure progress, learn best practices from your provincial counterparts. So......as has been asked of you twice and you've refused to answer......what is the NDP or Liberal (or NDP/Liberal) plans for Healthcare reform?

waldo · July 30, 2015

Yes it is inane.....when Healthcare is a major component of why you want to throw the bums out - and your premise is that the Federal government should be the ones to undertake Health Care reform - you'd better examine what the other guys propose to do! We know what Harper's approach is - here's the money - now get on with your responsibility of delivering Healthcare services - use money wisely, make improvements, measure progress, learn best practices from your provincial counterparts. So......as has been asked of you twice and you've refused to answer......what is the NDP or Liberal (or NDP/Liberal) plans for Healthcare reform?

so inane... yet you presumed to answer it! :lol: No - in isolation, as is Harper's way, the Federal government should not be the ones to undertake health care reform unilaterally... without the full engagement of the provinces. There is a current national role in our health care system... it's not just throwing money to the provinces... amounts as singularly determined by King Harper!

WIP · July 30, 2015

I've been thinking about this for a while now. Like most of you I've been wondering what the Canadian political landscape might look like after the 2015 Canadian Federal Election. I think a Trudeau/Mulcair coalition of sorts would be great. Both parties share similar ideologies and can work together. I would rather see a minority government with the NDP and Liberal making a coalition against the Conservatives.

Obviously Liberals want a Trudeau/Mulcair coalition, since Justin has revealed himself to be 1% substance/99% image since taking center stage in the Liberal Party. A coalition....led by Liberals for no valid reasons....is the only conceivable way to make him Prime Minister, even at a time when the vast majority (66% in recent poll) of Canadians are sick of Harper and want a change in government! The only thing Justin has impressed me at is as an amateur boxer...if you recall the Conservative PR event that accidentally made Trudeau a contender: beating the crap out of disgraced former Conservative Senator and supposed amateur boxer - Patrick Brazeau.

One thing that is a constant source of anxiety for Canadians on the political left is that we can never put much trust in NDP leaders and the governments they form. Over the last 50 years, once an NDP leader starts sniffing a big rise in the polls, they start shifting to the center ground to try to ensure victory and take out the centrist LIberals. I just hope a Prime Minister Thomas Mulcair doesn't turn into some hodgepodge of Liberal lite. Sometimes the worst governments for the left are those NDP governmets supposedly elected in our interests.....like the Rae Government in Ontario...then again he turned out to be a Liberal....nevermind!

So, I'll just say the most they should do in this coalition talk, is run some sort of non-aggression deal where they make defeating Conservatives the top priority and refrain from damaging the other party's chances of defeating a Tory in contested ridings.

Keepitsimple · July 30, 2015

so inane... yet you presumed to answer it! No - in isolation, as is Harper's way, the Federal government should not be the ones to undertake health care reform unilaterally... without the full engagement of the provinces. There is a current national role in our health care system... it's not just throwing money to the provinces... amounts as singularly determined by King Harper!

Yet you have failed miserably to articulate what that role should be.....or step up and answer the question that was posed to you.....what will the NDP, Liberals or NDP/Liberals do differently other than the usual babble that "they'll consult with the Provinces and stakeholders". What's your/their big reform? Step up Waldo!

waldo · July 30, 2015

Yet you have failed miserably to articulate what that role should be.....or step up and answer the question that was posed to you.....what will the NDP, Liberals or NDP/Liberals do differently other than the usual babble that "they'll consult with the Provinces and stakeholders". What's your/their big reform? Step up Waldo!

no - I suggested a cooperative engagement is required... a partnership between the federal and provincial governments... you know, an approach Harper actually loathes, particularly when he can simply choose to throw money out... an amount determined in isolation to what provinces may need. To Harper, reform is rather a no-brainer; you know, the Harper privatize health care reform plan!

poochy · July 30, 2015

Harper's the one keeping up pretenses (ie, lying) about the economy and his budget.

Harper has divided the country, just like he does to his own team: He sets people against each other, rules by fear.

The worst kind of leader.

.

O look, the evil agenda, keep it up, maybe if you lose this election to the evil empire you will start to reevaluate your general point of view towards everything.

poochy · July 30, 2015

no - I suggested a cooperative engagement is required...

An empty, meaningless, left wing catchphrase

a partnership between the federal and provincial governments...

And another

you know, an approach Harper actually loathes

Yes, of course he does, he loathes being spoken about like Darth Vader by utter idiots.

particularly when he can simply choose to throw money out... an amount determined in isolation to what provinces may need.

The provinces always want more than what they are given, always

To Harper, reform is rather a no-brainer; you know, the Harper privatize health care reform plan!

Except having done nothing of the sort, at least not in any way that any reasonable person would see.

But keep bringing up the evil agenda, it really speaks to the intelligence of the left that they are still relying upon a strategy that has failed for a decade.

Edited July 30, 2015 by poochy

Keepitsimple · July 30, 2015

no - I suggested a cooperative engagement is required... a partnership between the federal and provincial governments... you know, an approach Harper actually loathes, particularly when he can simply choose to throw money out... an amount determined in isolation to what provinces may need. To Harper, reform is rather a no-brainer; you know, the Harper privatize health care reform plan!

Those are weasel words - nothing more. What substantive changes do you - or the NDP or Liberals have in mind? Surely if this is such a huge concern....surely you've identified some of the problems and potential fixes - other than....more "consultation" or more money? C'mon Waldo - step up and contribute something of substance.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Keepitsimple

Smallc · July 30, 2015

If I'm giving someone money, usually it's up to me to decide how much and to attach any strings.

Argus · July 31, 2015

Argas, clearly... I've touched a nerve! Highlighting your boy Harper's antics in his perpetual move to privatize health care has quite obviously set you off in a tirade. I appreciate you have no counter to the fact Harper refuses to collectively engage provincial premiers... not just on health care... on anything. Well, no counter other than your bombastic self rising to the top! Obviously, asking you to speak to how health care would be reformed under a Harper Conservative model has you flummoxed to the point you've completely wigged out! My work is done here!

Why should I speak about reforming health care? Health care isn't even the topic here. And I note you've weaseled out of answering my questions - again! You continue to make things up to make smarmy, snotty statements which pat yourself on the back, but run away from direct rebuttal of questions. Pretty cowardly way to try to take part in discussions, Donald.

Charles Anthony · July 31, 2015

Folks,

I took down some posts.

Please avoid rude, foul and obnoxious dialogue.

Topaz · July 31, 2015

The facts are, if voters want change bad enough, then there will change in the PMO, and since right now polls show 66% want change, and since the polls are show the NDP are in the lead, then to get change, people will vote for the NDP to make at change, even if they are Tory and Liberal supporters because Harper needs to go. Voters under 45 better get out and vote or their retirement years may be very hard life because of the changes to CPP, OAS and the future of health care. I have visited other forums and read comments on different local newspapers, and not many support the Tories now.

jacee · July 31, 2015

Those are weasel words - nothing more. What substantive changes do you - or the NDP or Liberals have in mind? Surely if this is such a huge concern....surely you've identified some of the problems and potential fixes - other than....more "consultation" or more money? C'mon Waldo - step up and contribute something of substance.

Authoritarian one-man decisions are for tyrants like Harper.

Democracy requires consultation.

.

Argus · July 31, 2015

Authoritarian one-man decisions are for tyrants like Harper.

Democracy requires consultation.

.

I take it, then, that when Trudeau changed the rules and banned anyone with pro-life views from running for the Liberal Party, and severed the Liberal party's relationship with its own senators without consulting or even notifying his own caucus, you feel he was acting like a tyrant? Didn't his daddy describe MPs as "nobodies"? Why consult with nobodies, right?

waldo · July 31, 2015

I take it, then, that when Trudeau changed the rules and banned anyone with pro-life views from running for the Liberal Party, and severed the Liberal party's relationship with its own senators without consulting or even notifying his own caucus, you feel he was acting like a tyrant?

oh my! Another Harper apologist post... attempting to equate perceived tyranny in changes made to the internal workings of a party... versus changes (without consultation and in isolation) made by Harper that affect the lives of Canadians at large!