Moonlight Graham Posted September 12, 2014 Report Posted September 12, 2014 Seems Harper was all hot and bothered to support just such a violation back in 2003 when the US was ignoring the Peace of Westphalia. Mind, the US congress never did ratify that one... US Congress did ratify it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution And yes, Harper, as leader of the opposition at the time, did support the Iraq invasion/occupation, which makes him a hypocrite. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
dre Posted September 12, 2014 Report Posted September 12, 2014 Freedom of the Seas and the Montreux convention says otherwise………and of course several NATO allies reside upon the Black Sea. As to “controlling it”, the entrance to the Black Sea is encompassed by a NATO member, a NATO member that besides its own large air force, also has a significant USAF presence within its country. Thats all fine and well... But I want to know how taking taxes from me to fund ships in the black sea makes my life better, and exactly how Im supposed to collect the return on this investment. At BEST its a waste of god damn money. At worst it could get a whole lot of us killed, and cause even more money to be wasted. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted September 12, 2014 Report Posted September 12, 2014 Unfortunately, those who made the original decision to impose the sanctions have backed themselves into a corner and have no way of admitting a mistake and reversing policy. Thats the problem... when you start out by shooting your mouth off before you even think, it becomes hard to reverse course even if you know the course is wrong. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
eyeball Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 The difference is that the Salish Sea is Canadian waters, while the Russians don't have claim to all of the Black Sea. It entirely depends on where in the Black Sea Canadian vessels were. I realize there are political differences but the in-your-face geographical proximity is certainly comparable. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 Illegally invading and occupying another country, annexing it after an illegal referendum, and supporting anti-Ukrainian rebels in western Ukraine is also a provocative gesture. Yeah but c'mon, this is how super-duper powers roll. It seems a little late in the day to get all huffy about that now. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Our is business in the Black Sea is trying to protect the most basic international laws ever created. The entire basis of the international system with the creation of sovereign borders going back to 1648, the Peace of Westphalia, and the basis of the United Nations & its Charter. Every country in the world has a stake in what Russia did and threatens to do, not just NATO, because accepting such a precedent is extremely dangerous. I'm sorry but that ship has sailed - NATO members have very clearly accepted that precedent. Putin is a follower not a leader. If it's good enough for the shiniest beacons on Earth to behave this way... Edited September 13, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Moonlight Graham Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 I'm sorry but that ship has sailed - NATO members have very clearly accepted that precedent. Putin is a follower not a leader. If it's good enough for the shiniest beacons on Earth to behave this way... For all the imperial crap the US and other western powers have been involved over the last 60 years, they don't illegally annex countries. And again, this isn't just about NATO. As well, this crisis is still occurring. Russian-supported rebels are still in western Ukraine, and who knows what will happen next. I support a Canadian military presence in the region right now, at the very least as a show of symbolic support. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
eyeball Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 Look, It's fundamentally just about people being pricks...that's it that's all it's ever been. All this stuff about nations and annexing is really neither here nor there - it's just crap that we drape over things to justify being pricks to one another. I support withdrawing to our borders and sealing ourselves in until we've learned to behave ourselves. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 ...I support withdrawing to our borders and sealing ourselves in until we've learned to behave ourselves. Oh sure...only to continue being "pricks" about "aboriginal" land and resources. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Oh sure...only to continue being "pricks" about "aboriginal" land and resources. Not where I live, people ordinarily get along just fine around here. We hear about the odd chief and politician who can't get along but you know, those are people in power not regular folks like us..well notwithstanding you of course, not US us. Edited September 13, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 Not where I live, people ordinarily get along just fine around here. I bet...just regular folks happy to ignore what goes on around them...because it is always other people causing problems. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Seems like it alright, no missiles, rockets or insurgencies required. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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