Libyan Crisis

[Big Guy]

Up to 2010, Libya was led by Muammar Gaddafi. The West saw him as a “half crazy” malevolent dictator intent upon violating the human rights of Libyan citizens, and supporting irredentist movements, tribal warfare and terrorism in many other nations. In 2009 Libya had the highest HDI in Africa and the fifth highest GDP (PPP) per capita in Africa, behind Equatorial Guinea, Seychelles, Gabon, and Botswana. Libya still has the 10th-largest proven oil reserves of any country in the world and the 17th-highest petroleum production.

In 2011, a West backed civil war started disrupting the economy and finally a NATO led “intervention” caused a complete overthrow and execution of Gaddafi.

PM Harper jumped into the freedom fray (of course with the USA) and Canada played a major role;

“In the Libyan war, Canada has an unmatched multidimensional role. While the needle-nosed CF-18 fighter-bombers garner much of the media attention, there are scores of Canadians on the NATO command-and-control aircraft running the minute-to-minute air war, the Auroras, along with three air-refuelling tankers, and a warship cleared to sail so close to Misrata harbour that sailors on board can watch the splashes of shells from shore that fall short”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-role-in-libya-its-biggest-military-gambit-in-decades/article583888/

To-day, Islamic militants have taken over the US Embassy with Islamist fighters gleefully diving into the USA private pool. They are also now one of the major weapons suppliers for the terrorists in the region.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/31/islamic-militia-groups-says-it-has-secured-us-compound-in-libya/

Libya is now out of control and being bombed by the UAE and Egypt. Not even sure if the USA or Canada have a clue of what is going on.

http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21610301-militias-are-each-others-throats-new-parliament-tries-assemble-out

http://news.yahoo.com/uae-bombed-islamist-militias-libya-us-officials-221610682.html

Another example of the West sticking its nose into other nations business, destabilizing the country and then running as the country starts to self destruct.

And we wonder why those folks hate the USA and now Canada.

[WWWTT]

You have any proof backing the claim that Gaddafi backed terrorism in other countries and the human right violations in his own?

Because all we know for sure is that the western media PORTRAYED him as such

And then you say that the west backed more violence in Libya!

But somehow, by your definition, this is not terrorism. Even though thousands and thousands of more people have died (and still are!) as a result, still not TERRORISM!

This is called "double standard"!

One standard for western nations, another standard (and much higher) for Islamic nations!

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

....And we wonder why those folks hate the USA and now Canada.

Why would anyone wonder that ? President Reagan bombed Gaddafi's family compound, airstrips, fighters, transports, and radar sites way back in 1986 in response to a Berlin bombing. PM Paul Martin struck oil services deals for Canada in 2004. Heck, I'd bet more Canadians "hate" the USA than Libyans.

Edited September 1, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[overthere]

You have any proof backing the claim that Gaddafi backed terrorism in other countries and the human right violations in his own?

I have proof that Lockerbie Scotland never existed, it was a sound stage in Burbank California.

[Big Guy]

I have proof that Lockerbie Scotland never existed, it was a sound stage in Burbank California.

That same one that was used as a backdrop to those grainy moon landing videos?

[Remiel]

Tell that to David Murdoch...

[WWWTT]

Oh you mean the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

So tell me then what came first 1986 US bombing of Libya or 1988 Lockerbie?????

So when the US go's and kills people, then that's for freedom????

And what about the German disco bombing that cleared Libyan connections????

Oh please and try to provide the links showing the evidence for Lockerbie, please show!

So tell me Big Guy, what about your double standard that you now have???

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/2/missing-libyan-jetliners-raise-fears-terror-attack/

Islamist militias in Libya took control of nearly a dozen commercial jetliners last month, and Western intelligence agencies recently issued a warning that the jets could be used in terrorist attacks across North Africa.

Intelligence reports of the stolen jetliners were distributed within the U.S. government over the past two weeks and included a warning that one or more of the aircraft could be used in an attack later this month on the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against New York and Washington, said U.S. officials familiar with the reports.

[Rue]

Now Bush. It is true Canada kissed Ghaffadi's large wrinkled buttox. But please don't forget years after Reagan tried to blow up that buttox, you yanks sent your own ass kissing clowns as well.

In fact the entire West did taking the cue from Tony Blair who I still remember kissing Ghaddafi's big brown hand and it was brown for many reasons most unsanitary.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now Bush. It is true Canada kissed Ghaffadi's large wrinkled buttox. But please don't forget years after Reagan tried to blow up that buttox, you yanks sent your own ass kissing clowns as well.

Thank you for admitting the obvious. The "yanks" went in to demil all of Ghadaffi's WMD programs which he volunteered after seeing Iraq/Saddam bombed and invaded....you know...the war that Canada declined to participate in.

[GostHacked]

And now that Gaddafi is gone, Libya has become another hotbed of terrorism. As predicted.

[overthere]

And now that Gaddafi is gone, Libya has become another hotbed of terrorism. As predicted.

On the other hand, they are unable to export that terrorism at the moment, and cannot fund others for same. It's small victory but you take them where you can.

[bush_cheney2004]

Curiously, Libya was a nation that Canada was more than happy to bomb....go figure.

[Solidarity]

On the other hand, they are unable to export that terrorism at the moment, and cannot fund others for same. It's small victory but you take them where you can.

Huh? The nation, and all its former military equipment is now controlled either by Islamic fundamentalists or tribal (often Islamic) warlords. Islamic militants and weapons from Libya were behind the Northern Mali conflict, and they were routing the Mali army before France intervened. There is also a documented pipeline of jihadi's and weapons to Syria. It's not a small victory, its a massive reverse in the struggle against fundamentalist terrorism and aggression.

[overthere]

Huh? The nation, and all its former military equipment is now controlled either by Islamic fundamentalists or tribal (often Islamic) warlords. Islamic militants and weapons from Libya were behind the Northern Mali conflict, and they were routing the Mali army before France intervened. There is also a documented pipeline of jihadi's and weapons to Syria. It's not a small victory, its a massive reverse in the struggle against fundamentalist terrorism and aggression.

The buntoss in Mali was and is a pretty small scale affair. The West Moose Jaw Fire Department could rout the Mali army. I have traveled in the areas they were fighting in Mali and there ain't much there. There is also a documented pipeline of jihadis from Canada, the UK and many other countries to Syria and beyond.

No, the ability of Libya as a state to export terror or money to support terror is severely limited with the abrupt absence of Qaddafi. That may change, but they don't look too organized just yet. They're pretty busy fighting each other.

[Solidarity]

Curiously, Libya was a nation that Canada was more than happy to bomb....go figure.

Harper would be glad to jump aboard any 'Coalition' of western nations, whatever the target is. Hell, probably all our politicians are tempted by the opportunity to look like a strong, decisive, and victorious leader. They are all so self serving and worried about the next election cycle that I wonder what the actual discussions about going to war sound like.

[Solidarity]

The buntoss in Mali was and is a pretty small scale affair. The West Moose Jaw Fire Department could rout the Mali army. I have traveled in the areas they were fighting in Mali and there ain't much there. There is also a documented pipeline of jihadis from Canada, the UK and many other countries to Syria and beyond.

No, the ability of Libya as a state to export terror or money to support terror is severely limited with the abrupt absence of Qaddafi. That may change, but they don't look too organized just yet. They're pretty busy fighting each other.

The 'buntoss' in Mali led to a few thousand deaths and over 300k displaced people, and the seizure of literally half the country's land mass by radical Islamists before France intervened. Small scale affair compared to other wars sure, but not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination. Certainly more significant than any state sponsored terrorism coming out of Libya under Gaddafi. The only rational explanation I can see of your statement is that exporting terrorism just mean to the west, and its OK if they kill and terrorize Africans and Arabs? Otherwise how can you possibly claim that there is less terrorism coming out of Libya post-Gaddafi.

The suggestion the amount of support for jihadis from Canada and the UK (The west) is remotely similar to that from post-war Libya is not even remotely true. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/world/africa/in-a-turnabout-syria-rebels-get-libyan-weapons.html?pagewanted=all

"Mr. Bukatef, the Libyan diplomat, said Libyan militias had been shipping weapons to Syrian rebels for more than a year.

“They collect the weapons, and when they have enough they send it,” he said. “The Libyan government is not involved, but it does not really matter.”

[snip]

And most of the weapons have been relatively light, including rifles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, small arms ammunition and mortar rounds. But the Libyan influx appears to account for at least a portion of the antitank weapons seen in the conflict this spring, including Belgian-made projectiles for M40 recoilless rifles and some of the Russian-made Konkurs-M guided missiles that have been destroying Syrian tanks in recent months. Syrian rebels, working with Qatari backers and the Turkish government, have developed a system for acquiring and distributing Libya’s excess stock, Syrian activists and rebels said."

Edited September 3, 2014 by Solidarity

[GostHacked]

On the other hand, they are unable to export that terrorism at the moment, and cannot fund others for same. It's small victory but you take them where you can.

It will get exported. Did you read that article about the multiple jet aircraft missing?? I would argue it was already exported. Meaning the Benghazi crap with the possibility of funneling arms through Libya to Syria.

Edited September 4, 2014 by GostHacked