Ferguson unrest

Argus · December 8, 2014

If a cop screws up it can and has resulted in death. But that is chalked up to the cop making a 'mistake'. If I screw up on my job, it's not going to result in someone's death.

And that is one of the down sides to the exciting world of policing. One mistake might be your last -- or someone else's.

So who here has never screwed up at work?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Argus

Argus · December 8, 2014

That is part of my point, you were SCARED to get shot by a cop when he is demanding your ID. He treated YOU like a suspected terrorists and not an American citizen.

You don't think the cops are SCARED to get shot by American citizens?

Black Dog · December 8, 2014

The Black nuclear family was fine in the forties and fifties.

The rate of out-of-wedlock births for blacks in the '40s and '50s were still more than double that of whites. By 1965, it was 24% compared to the national average of around 7%.

GostHacked · December 8, 2014

You don't think the cops are SCARED to get shot by American citizens?

The real issue is WHY are they scared of the general public. Is it because of terrorism overseas or is it because we see plenty of corruption regarding cover ups of a lot of incidents. Did Kelley Thomas deserve to die? No, and only because of some protests did the police really do anything. One was charged with murder. I think two others for 'involuntary manslaughter'. Whatever that really means.

You no longer live in a safe and respectable society when the police and citizenry are scared of each other. And you have to ask yourself why?

GostHacked · December 8, 2014

There are times when a cop is justifiable in shooing/killing a suspect. But I think that those incidents are in the minority. Most of the time much of this can quickly be deescalated and a crisis/death avoided.

Black Dog · December 8, 2014

The real issue is WHY are they scared of the general public.

Uh: guns?

GostHacked · December 8, 2014

Uh: guns?

Guns are not the issue, as discussed many times before. Many of the incidents in that video I posted were knives. And one had break pads in his hands..... nope, not guns.

Black Dog · December 8, 2014

Guns are not the issue, as discussed many times before. Many of the incidents in that video I posted were knives. And one had break pads in his hands..... nope, not guns.

Guns most certainly are part of the issue. To pretend otherwise is just denying reality.

GostHacked · December 8, 2014

Guns most certainly are part of the issue. To pretend otherwise is just denying reality.

So police with guns are part of the issue. Blame the gun or the perp WITH the gun, or the cop WITH the gun? I use the gun on you, is the gun to blame or am I to blame?

cybercoma · December 8, 2014

Well, there was that whole slavery thing which really did a number on the black nuclear family.

The nuclear family thing is a red-herring that's not backed up by any substantial research. What kids need is stability, not necessarily from a nuclear family. You know what's practically impossible to have when you're living in poverty? Stability.

Black Dog · December 8, 2014

So police with guns are part of the issue.

No.

Blame the gun or the perp WITH the gun, or the cop WITH the gun? I use the gun on you, is the gun to blame or am I to blame?

The widespread availability of firearms is the issue. How often, when a cop kills a civilian, do you hear the excuse "he thought he was reaching for a gun?" It was even suggested by Daren Wilson in his testimony that he thought Mike Brown may have been packing heat.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Black Dog

GostHacked · December 8, 2014

The widespread availability of firearms is the issue. How often, when a cop kills a civilian, do you hear the excuse "he thought he was reaching for a gun?" It was even suggested by Daren Wilson in his testimony that he thought Mike Brown may have been packing heat.

So who is to blame for the amount of firearms out there? If there was no demand, there would not be any manufacturing. But that is another thing 'I THOUGHT he was reaching for a weapon'. I must point out once more regarding the cop who shot the guy for complying with his request to get his license. IN a split second the cop opens fire because the man reached inside his truck for his wallet. Is the gun to blame here?

I thought we moved past this 'blame the firearm and not the person using it' bullshit.

Let's take into account the failed 'Fast and Furious'. That was deliberate gun running by the US to Mexico drug cartels hoping to track the guns in their crimes. That worked out well did it not? Some of those firearms came back across the border to be used for criminal activity in the US. Is the gun to blame or is it how the government handled the program?

There are plenty of legal law abiding gun owners out there. It is the criminals who will get one without going through the license processes. Do you blame the gun there or how all this is hypocritically addressed in the first place by our so called 'leaders'.

Should the government be involved in gun running while trying to eliminate firearms from it's citizenry? Should the government also be in the business of arming it's military if the widespread of guns is a societal issue? Should it be involved in making weapons of any kind?

IN most of these cases I do not see many here asking the real tough questions. Or really giving a solid answer to the issue we see at hand.

How did it get this way?

Why are the cops scared of us, and why are we scared of them?

Why is it more likely you will be killed by a police officer compared to terrorism?

Why is the government taking away firearms while arming foreign drug cartels?

Why does arming other terror groups abroad undermined the stance of gun control domestically?

Why are the police looking more and more like paramilitary outfits and not police officers, or what we used to know them as Peace Officers. Who are they policing, and why? With that, who are they really protecting?

Why is there a dual approach to all this. One approach for law enforcement/military, and one for citizens?

WestCoastRunner · December 9, 2014

You're an expert in American law, are you?

When a police officer decides to arrest you or any reason whatsoever he or she is legally authorized to use whatever amount of force is necessary to overcome your resistance, up to and including killing you. The situation is no different in Canada or anywhere else.

I'm not an expert but plenty of legal analysts have expressed the recommendations that he should have been ticketed and the power hungry cops should have carried on with their work day and left him alone.

He'd be alive today looking forward to Christmas with his kids, wife, parents and grandkids. Instead, his family is mourning his passing because he chose to stand up to the power hungry cops (after many harrassment attempts on behalf of the cops) and they chose to tackle him. Did they not recognize what kind of shape he was in and not realized that if they tackled him to the ground with a chokehold that it might have had a detrimental affect on his life (everyone knows, just looking at him, he is not a healthy dude). Isn't the police force supposed to be engaging in 'community policing' instead of 'tyranny policing'?

On Guard for Thee · December 9, 2014

Ooops, Argus has his facts wrong again.

WestCoastRunner · December 9, 2014

This dude was not endangering anyone. He may or may not have been selling loosies. Honestly, are you folks that are defending the cops, agreeing that this man deserved to die. I need more convincing.

bush_cheney2004 · December 9, 2014

...Isn't the police force supposed to be engaging in 'community policing' instead of 'tyranny policing'?

No...the police are not trained medical professionals, they are trained to enforce the law. Resisting arrest will cause an escalation in force up to the use of deadly force. The city will end up paying a settlement or judgement to the family.

On Guard for Thee · December 9, 2014

And they are required to enforce the law within the constraints of the law. Clearly not the case in the Garner killing.

WestCoastRunner · December 9, 2014

No...the police are not trained medical professionals, they are trained to enforce the law. Resisting arrest will cause an escalation in force up to the use of deadly force. The city will end up paying a settlement or judgement to the family.

They should be trained to engage with the community.

On Guard for Thee · December 9, 2014

Yes, and without killing them needlessly.

bush_cheney2004 · December 9, 2014

There is nothing special about the Garner case...law enforcement actions have regularly result in the death of perps and innocent bystanders (e.g. high speed pursuits, flash bang grenade fires, submission holds, tasers, gunshots, etc.). This case will likely end up in a wrongful death suit with a payout by the city.

bush_cheney2004 · December 9, 2014

They should be trained to engage with the community.

They are trained to engage the community...in many ways. Cops don't spend all day eating donuts and plotting ways to kill their next citizen.

WestCoastRunner · December 9, 2014

There is nothing special about the Garner case...law enforcement actions have regularly result in the death of perps and innocent bystanders (e.g. high speed pursuits, flash bang grenade fires, submission holds, tasers, gunshots, etc.). This case will likely end up in a wrongful death suit with a payout by the city.

Have you seen the results of the Federal investigation in the Cleveland Police incidents. I will post links.

On Guard for Thee · December 9, 2014

Maybe there's something "special" about the Garner case if you happen to be one of his six kids.

bush_cheney2004 · December 9, 2014

Have you seen the results of the Federal investigation in the Cleveland Police incidents. I will post links.

Yes I have....big deal. Police departments have been under scrutiny for excessive force for a long time.

WestCoastRunner · December 9, 2014

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/08/opinion/cevallos-justice-department-cleveland-police/index.html?hpt=op_t1

The DOJ observed a sign hanging in a district station identifying it as a "forward operating base," which is a military term for an outpost in a war zone. People sympathetic to law enforcement might say "no big deal -- that's part of police culture." To other members of the community and to the Justice Department, this is disturbing evidence of police culture: that CDP is more of an occupying army than a community partner.

It failed to provide final dispositions for every civilian complaint, including complaints filed two years ago. It failed to provide Taser firing histories.

The report found tactical errors and a failure to follow basic, generally accepted techniques for responding to an armed suspect. In one such case in 2011, officers failed to control the scene, failed to designate locations from which officers could seek cover and contain the threat, failed to use a negotiator, and grouped together with little or no cover.

CDP failed to provide dozens of additional Internal Affairs investigations. It failed to provide final dispositions for every civilian complaint, including complaints filed two years ago. It failed to provide Taser firing histories.