Ferguson unrest

[Argus]

We know he was shot because he was a big black kid.

80% of the population this cop dealt with on a daily basis were Black. What made this old-enough-to-be-in-the-army 'kid' special?

[jacee]

It should go to court of course but if you look at the stats it's unlikely any charges will be brought. Cops in the US tend to get a bit of a free ride.

Looks like we won't know for a while:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/justice/missouri-ferguson-darren-wilson-grand-jury/?c=&page=1

On Wednesday, Wilson testified for almost four hours in front of the seven men and five women on that grand jury, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation.The same source cited by the paper claimed that the Ferguson police officer, who was put on paid administrative leave after the shooting, has been "cooperative"

...

St. Louis County Judge Carolyn Whittington has extended the grand jury's deadline until January 7, Paul Fox, the county's director of judicial administration, told CNN this week.

[On Guard for Thee]

Of course it will be a while, and in the interim memories will fade, evidence will fade and under the rug it all goes. And of course the prosecutor is a white man who's father was shot and killed by a black man some years ago. No conflict of interest there, uh uh, no.

[jbg]

Of course it will be a while, and in the interim memories will fade, evidence will fade and under the rug it all goes. And of course the prosecutor is a white man who's father was shot and killed by a black man some years ago. No conflict of interest there, uh uh, no.

Are you looking for lynch-mob justice?

[On Guard for Thee]

Nope. Just justice.

[jacee]

Of course it will be a while, and in the interim memories will fade, evidence will fade and under the rug it all goes. And of course the prosecutor is a white man who's father was shot and killed by a black man some years ago. No conflict of interest there, uh uh no

Maybe the perception of conflict of interest is the reason he took it to a Grand Jury instead.

.

[Argus]

Nope. Just justice.

As long as the White guy gets punished for what he did -- no matter what the facts say.

[On Guard for Thee]

That's your view perhaps. I'm more on the side of the facts and justice, in that order.

[Black Dog]

Not really. The question at hand was whether Brown was a thug

It doesn't seem like that's really a question to you. Nor is it really relevant to the way events went down.

If the thug Brown (the video is enough for my decision) attacked the cop that ipso facto makes him a violent offender. As I understand American law, the police are allowed to shoot violent offenders to prevent them from escaping.

That's the key innit? If Brown was surrendering (again, as eyewitnesses have attested), then he was not trying to escape and not fair game.

And frankly, I've never believed that Brown was shot multiple times while peacefully standing still with his hands raised. Just doesn't make any sense and goes against human nature. Not saying it's impossible but it's damned unlikely.

You can't possibly be that credulous.

80% of the population this cop dealt with on a daily basis were Black. What made this old-enough-to-be-in-the-army 'kid' special?

So you're saying we shouldn't believe this cop capable of shooting someone in questionable circumstances because he hadn't shot anyone in questionable circumstances before?

As long as the White guy gets punished for what he did -- no matter what the facts say.

I think we've established that when it comes to issues of race and crime, your commitment to the facts is, shall we say, malleable.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Black Dog

[Argus]

It doesn't seem like that's really a question to you. Nor is it really relevant to the way events went down.

It's entirely relevant given the way this was first portrayed, and the unlikelihood that a 'nice young boy' would do anything to legitimately cause the cop to shoot him.

That's the key innit? If Brown was surrendering (again, as eyewitnesses have attested), then he was not trying to escape and not fair game.

Witnesses including his accomplice and some other slum dwellers?

You can't possibly be that credulous.

There have been many cases of police abuse of power over the past couple of decades. How many involved someone standing still with their hands raised in surrender being shot?

So you're saying we shouldn't believe this cop capable of shooting someone in questionable circumstances because he hadn't shot anyone in questionable circumstances before?

Didn't say that. Said I found it unlikely, especially in the open where there could be witnesses and cameras. Not that cops can't and haven't done stupid things in the past, but generally executing someone is not the sort of thing you do in front of an audience.

I think we've established that when it comes to issues of race and crime, your commitment to the facts is, shall we say, malleable.

I think I've established my commitment to the facts and justice is absolute, and not affected by skin pigmentation, as it seems to be with many on the Left.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh I think from this certain corner, the assumption of guilt has a lot to do with skin color.

[On Guard for Thee]

I think the term "slum dweller" is a bit of a giveaway. Kind of shows that your assumption is if someone is poor and black they are also liars.

[jbg]

I think the term "slum dweller" is a bit of a giveaway. Kind of shows that your assumption is if someone is poor and black they are also liars.

You certainly aren't going to deny a certain institutionalized hatred for police and other governmental authorities.

[Black Dog]

It's entirely relevant given the way this was first portrayed, and the unlikelihood that a 'nice young boy' would do anything to legitimately cause the cop to shoot him.

Nope, still irrelevant. Even if he was a hardened criminal with a rap sheet a mile long, the fact remains, if he was shot while in the act of surrendering, that's not on.

Witnesses including his accomplice and some other slum dwellers?

Oh right: black folks' testimony isn't worth that of a white man's. Seriously: what the hell does the socioeconomic status of the witnesses have to do with anything?

There have been many cases of police abuse of power over the past couple of decades. How many involved someone standing still with their hands raised in surrender being shot?

How about the kid in San Francisco who was shot by a transit cop while lying face down on the ground?

Funny thing too: your version of events has plenty of room for the cop shooting Brown while surrendering. It's much easier to picture a cop who had been involved in a physical altercation with a suspect and had already opened fire deciding (perhaps without even thinking) to finish the job in the moment than the version of events you reject.

Didn't say that. Said I found it unlikely, especially in the open where there could be witnesses and cameras. Not that cops can't and haven't done stupid things in the past, but generally executing someone is not the sort of thing you do in front of an audience.

It doesn't have to be a methodical execution.

I think I've established my commitment to the facts and justice is absolute, and not affected by skin pigmentation, as it seems to be with many on the Left.

Right, like in the "black on white" crime thread you seem to have bailed on after confronted with the facts about crime rates?

[Black Dog]

Interested to hear the justifications for this.

[cybercoma]

Obviously he was a thug and deserved it.

[Argus]

Nope, still irrelevant.

Entirely relevant given the narrative.

Oh right: black folks' testimony isn't worth that of a white man's. Seriously: what the hell does the socioeconomic status of the witnesses have to do with anything?

The culture of these areas is normally pretty anti-police, with virtually every resident having either been in prison or having friends and family members who have been in prison. It's not difficult to find all kinds of people willing to testify as to police misconduct, whether they saw anything or not.

How about the kid in San Francisco who was shot by a transit cop while lying face down on the ground?

An accident, not an execution.

Right, like in the "black on white" crime thread you seem to have bailed on after confronted with the facts about crime rates?

Not sure what you're talking about. The last post in that topic was four days ago and was mine.

[Argus]

Obviously he was a thug and deserved it.

Obviously he was a thug. Whether he deserved it, well, not sure yet. But I admit I rarely shed tears over what happens to thugs -- of whatever colour.

[guyser]

Obviously he was a thug. Whether he deserved it, well, not sure yet. But I admit I rarely shed tears over what happens to thugs -- of whatever colour.

We know that since you raison d'etre is to slam the Courts when they uphold violations of citizens.

This is just another slam.

[cybercoma]

Obviously he was a thug. Whether he deserved it, well, not sure yet. But I admit I rarely shed tears over what happens to thugs -- of whatever colour.

Yeah, but we all know black people are thugs by default to some posters, while white people have to prove themselves to be thugs.

[jbg]

We know that since you raison d'etre is to slam the Courts when they uphold violations of citizens.

This is just another slam.

Maybe it's that there's a presumption that officers are doing their job?

[On Guard for Thee]

It would be nice to know if he was "just doing his job" or something else. My guess is we never will.

[Black Dog]

Entirely relevant given the narrative.

Again: depends on the narrative (and i'm not talking about the "random execution" one)

The culture of these areas is normally pretty anti-police, with virtually every resident having either been in prison or having friends and family members who have been in prison. It's not difficult to find all kinds of people willing to testify as to police misconduct, whether they saw anything or not.

OK, do you have a basis for this or is this another one of those "gut" feelings that people have (like the one about violent crime increasing)?

An accident, not an execution.

Again, such credulity from a self-professed cynic.

Not sure what you're talking about. The last post in that topic was four days ago and was mine.

Yeah some tangential rabble rabble about academics.

[Black Dog]

Obviously he was a thug. Whether he deserved it, well, not sure yet. But I admit I rarely shed tears over what happens to thugs -- of whatever colour.

What made the guy shot in Wal Mart a thug?

[Mighty AC]

Wow. Probably the worst video of a white cop shooting a black man, without cause, that I have ever seen. Sadly, there have been so many that it takes a minute or two to rank them.

Cop asks man for his license. Man reaches into his car for his license and cop fires multiple shots, hitting the man in the leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBUUO_VFYMs#t=27

Edited September 25, 2014 by Mighty AC