How Trudeau is winning my vote

[WestCoastRunner]

Today we had Federal Justice Minister Peter MacKay making statements in Marc Emery's hometown with the following absurd statements:

• His government won’t loosen marijuana laws. (Let's fill up those prisons!)
• We do not favour legalization, we do not favour decriminalization. (they refuse to look at what the majority of Canadians wants)
• It is our intention to continue to uphold the law that does not allow the proliferation of drug use and marijuana. (MJ is a terrible drug!)
• Liberal government would make it easier for children to get their hands on pot. While the Liberals would try to make it easier for our children to access marijuana, Canadians can count on our government to put forward policies that keep drugs off our streets and keep our families safe. (It's my assumption that a child would not be allowed to purchase mj, similar to alcohol and cigarettes)

With statements like these how can we not vote liberal.

[On Guard for Thee]

Today we had Federal Justice Minister Peter MacKay making statements in Marc Emery's hometown with the following absurd statements:

• His government won’t loosen marijuana laws. (Let's fill up those prisons!)
• We do not favour legalization, we do not favour decriminalization. (they refuse to look at what the majority of Canadians wants)
• It is our intention to continue to uphold the law that does not allow the proliferation of drug use and marijuana. (MJ is a terrible drug!)
• Liberal government would make it easier for children to get their hands on pot. While the Liberals would try to make it easier for our children to access marijuana, Canadians can count on our government to put forward policies that keep drugs off our streets and keep our families safe. (It's my assumption that a child would not be allowed to purchase mj, similar to alcohol and cigarettes)

With statements like these how can we not vote liberal.

And I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear he and other of his colleagues puff on the odd joint themselves. They're getting desperate so they grasp for every vote they can think of.

[kimmy]

How many Canadians actually do jail time for using marijuana, or possessing it in recreational quantities? I have a hunch that the number is actually miniscule, despite what pro-legalization activists might want you to think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of smarter laws around marijuana, and if the experiments in Washington and Colorado are successful, I'd support legalization too.

But I see marijuana laws as an issue of minor importance, they are not something that will decide my vote.

-k

[On Guard for Thee]

How many Canadians actually do jail time for using marijuana, or possessing it in recreational quantities? I have a hunch that the number is actually miniscule, despite what pro-legalization activists might want you to think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of smarter laws around marijuana, and if the experiments in Washington and Colorado are successful, I'd support legalization too.

But I see marijuana laws as an issue of minor importance, they are not something that will decide my vote.

-k

I recall hearing an interview on CBC radio with a Vancouver based criminal lawyer with regard to Harper's so called tough on crime bill that, a scan of existing dockets would add some 4000 convicts to the correctional system Canada wide over the new MMS on simple possession. It's as you say probably not the most important issue, and I suspect folks will do what they need to do to avoid getting caught in this stupid web of vote catching, but in any case those that do get caught will just cost us a load of dough for no reason.

[WestCoastRunner]

How many Canadians actually do jail time for using marijuana, or possessing it in recreational quantities? I have a hunch that the number is actually miniscule, despite what pro-legalization activists might want you to think.

-k

Let's have a look since the Tories came to power in 2006:

Arrests for pot possession have jumped 41 per cent. In those six years, police reported more than 405,000 marijuana-related arrests, roughly equivalent to the populations of Regina and Saskatoon combined.

Two of the largest one-year increases in police-reported crimes in 2011 were a 40 per cent jump in child pornography cases (3,100 incidents), and a seven per cent hike (to 61,406 arrests) for pot possession. Taken together, all marijuana offences—possession, growing and trafficking—accounted for a record 78,000 arrests in 2011, or 69 per cent of all drug offences. Simple pot possession represented 54 per cent of every drug crime that police managed to uncover. This is more phony war than calamity, waged by a government determined to save us from a cannabis crisis of its own making. To have the minister imply a moral equivalency between child sexual abuse and carrying a couple of joints in your jeans underscores the emotionalism clouding the issue: reason enough to look at why marijuana is illegal in the first place.

You can read more here.

[On Guard for Thee]

I am looking forward to the fall sitting and how JT's strategy unfolds. I suspect he is enjoying his BBQ circuit while Harper wallows in muck he is trying to rake with his anti Trudeau attack ads. He's done it before successfully but I think Canadians are catching on and signing off so it just isn't working this time. Chretien did the same thing back in his days with Mulroney, keeping mum as his opponent shot himself in one foot then the other, so maybe JT is taking a page from tht book. Thwre are certainly enough outstanding Harper scandals for JT to address if he chooses to get a bit more prolific in QP. Let's hope we can get back to actually discussing policies for a change.

[WestCoastRunner]

They are certainly exploiting Marc Emery and his wife's allegiance to the liberal party. I'm betting JT is wishing Marc wasn't released now! Bad timing for him as the Tories are going to take full advantage of this. And I don't believe Jody Emery will get very far in her ambitious plans either.

[kimmy]

None of that actually addressed what I said. There may have been a large number of marijuana arrests, but how many result in jail time?

Despite claims to the contrary, there's still not a mandatory minimum sentence for simple possession. There are mandatory minimums for production (6 or more plants), possession for purposes of trafficking, and possession for purposes of import or export.

You guys seem to be insinuating that the Conservatives are filling the prisons with people convicted for simple possession, but I still have not seen any evidence that it's so.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

None of that actually addressed what I said. There may have been a large number of marijuana arrests, but how many result in jail time?

Despite claims to the contrary, there's still not a mandatory minimum sentence for simple possession. There are mandatory minimums for production (6 or more plants), possession for purposes of trafficking, and possession for purposes of import or export.

You guys seem to be insinuating that the Conservatives are filling the prisons with people convicted for simple possession, but I still have not seen any evidence that it's so.

-k

Whether or not they get sent to prison, they are still left with a record and is quite simply not fair.

[On Guard for Thee]

The additional 4k off to jail was based on the MMS for 6 plants. Nothing to do with simple possession.

[kimmy]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marijuana-crime-are-police-turning-a-blind-eye-to-pot-charges-1.2733396

According to Statistics Canada, since 2009, the total number of people charged for marijuana possession hasn't changed that much in recent years — 24,056 (2009), 26,570 (2010), 27,997 (2011), 26,099 (2012), and 25,786 (2013).

While the number of charges may seem high, it's difficult to determine which ones are stand-alone charges, meaning charges in which individuals were solely charged for pot possession and did not have it tagged on as part of a group of other charges.

...

"On the one hand, [police] don't want to chase people for small amounts of marijuana," added Anthony Moustacalis, president of the Criminal Lawyers' Association. "On the other hand, it's sometimes helpful for police to have that in their back pocket if they want to do more intrusive searches of people."

...

Moustacalis said the Department of Justice generally has a policy that anyone caught with under 30 grams they will divert the charges, which means the matter will be dealt with in an alternative way that will not result in the person getting a criminal record.

But if someone is charged again or caught with marijuana in a car (where impairment might be an issue) police may be less flexible.

Mostly, Moustacalis said, police will leave people alone if they're smoking marijuana in their own home.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marijuana-crime-are-police-turning-a-blind-eye-to-pot-charges-1.2733396

...

...

-k

I saw all those stats too! Funny how we can conveniently find stats to support our arguments.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'll be very succinct with my idea on this: either legalize MJ, or criminalize tobacco and acohal. Anything else is complete hypocrasy, nothing less.

[WestCoastRunner]

I'll be very succinct with my idea on this: either legalize MJ, or criminalize tobacco and acohal. Anything else is complete hypocrasy, nothing less.

And I do believe it is an important issue to consider at the next election.

[On Guard for Thee]

And I do believe it is an important issue to consider at the next election.

Well it certainly has it's weight IMO because regardless of how the stats have rolled out, if you're in jail because you happen to be someone who likes to do pot then you are a victim of law that has no basis nor argument that can make it relevant vis a vis the fact you can smoke cigs and suck back gin tonics 'till the cows come home. As long as you don't do something stupid after and that of course whould always apply.

[WestCoastRunner]

Well it certainly has it's weight IMO because regardless of how the stats have rolled out, if you're in jail because you happen to be someone who likes to do pot then you are a victim of law that has no basis nor argument that can make it relevant vis a vis the fact you can smoke cigs and suck back gin tonics 'till the cows come home. As long as you don't do something stupid after and that of course whould always apply.

You may not even end up in jail, however, you could end up with a record and for a young person, that can have devastating consequences on their future. It's just not ethical to impose this kind of a record on someone for having possession of a few joints.

[On Guard for Thee]

You may not even end up in jail, however, you could end up with a record and for a young person, that can have devastating consequences on their future. It's just not ethical to impose this kind of a record on someone for having possession of a few joints.

Exactly. And if you want stupid, just look south of the border and mj laws. I have heard the stories that US border agents, if you answer honestly and in the affirmative if you've ever used pot, (nothing to do with actually having any on you) have been turned back from the border, even though at least 2 states have legalized it. Of course border agents work for the feds.

[kimmy]

I saw all those stats too! Funny how we can conveniently find stats to support our arguments.

The article I quoted put the stats into some context. A couple of key points from my article:

-the raw number of arrests doesn't indicate how many of those arrests were in conjunctions with other crimes. The president of the Criminal Lawyers Association indicated that marijuana possession charges are typically not laid alone and are often used as a means for police to investigate other issues. So while the pro-pot people would probably like you to picture a typical marijuana arrest as being a young-person minding their own business when suddenly a big fascist cop jumps out of the bushes and shouts "A-HA!!!" the typical situation is more like the cops have already been called out for some reason-- noise complaint, trespass, neighbor suspicious of domestic violence, or so on, and the cop sees or smells marijuana and uses that as a foot-in-the-door tactic.

-there are situations where it might be a good thing that the cops can charge somebody with possession. For example, the article mentioned that the cops often look the other way, but not if the person happens to be driving while they're stoned. Personally, I think that if you're driving down the road puffing on a big fat joint and the cops pull you over, you *should* face criminal charges.

And I do believe it is an important issue to consider at the next election.

I think it's slightly important. I'll pay much more attention to what the parties positions on CPP and OAS are, though.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

I read all those articles you mentioned above and I noted the key points as well. Doesn't excuse the Tories 'war on drugs' with mj.

[On Guard for Thee]

I read all those articles you mentioned above and I noted the key points as well. Doesn't excuse the Tories 'war on drugs' with mj.

Look how miserably (not to mention expensively) the war on drugs in America failed. But Harper still sucks up to it for, well we know what for. One of his most retarded statements I have heard him make was in an interview with Mansbridge where he somehow tried to defend his crime bill and soecifically the more severe MMS portion by saying"you know Peter when you buy that mj cigarette you are not buying ift from your neighbour but you are buying it from the Mexican drug cartels"

Well you shouldn't have to think about that one too long to see just how counterproductive it is even to his own supposed ideals.

You could even begin to wonder if maybe he has an investment "south of the border"

[Keepitsimple]

How incredibly shallow some of us have become.....to think that with all the challenges in continuing to move Canada forward, the economy/free trade, and all the troubles in the world.......that there are people whose vote hinges on loosening marijuana laws. How sad.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[waldo]

How incredibly shallow some of us have become.....to think that with all the challenges in continuing to move Canada forward, the economy/free trade, and all the troubles in the world.......that there are people whose vote hinges on loosening marijuana laws. How sad.

are you equally sad... will you be equally sadder... over the investment Harper Conservatives have and will continue to put into related personal attack ads against JT intended to secure votes? After all, think of all those challenges you speak of!

[Big Guy]

They are certainly exploiting Marc Emery and his wife's allegiance to the liberal party. I'm betting JT is wishing Marc wasn't released now! Bad timing for him as the Tories are going to take full advantage of this. And I don't believe Jody Emery will get very far in her ambitious plans either.

Keeping this issue on the front page may not be a good strategy for Harper. This Emery fellow looked a little spaced out on what I saw on TV but the number of Canadians supporting legalization is increasing. Here in Southern Ontario, we recently developed and passed zoning by-laws for marijuana growing buildings. This last year we authorized 5 businesses to grow marijuana for medicinal purposes and lots more (including outside) requests in the queue.

Lots of previous tobacco farmers sitting on land perfect for growth of this crop.

These are the same people who the Tories have previously relied on for a guaranteed vote.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Big Guy

[PIK]

are you equally sad... will you be equally sadder... over the investment Harper Conservatives have and will continue to put into related personal attack ads against JT intended to secure votes? After all, think of all those challenges you speak of!

Why does trudeau lie about smoking with that emery guy? Emery said it again he smoke with him on a patio bar.

[PIK]

How incredibly shallow some of us have become.....to think that with all the challenges in continuing to move Canada forward, the economy/free trade, and all the troubles in the world.......that there are people whose vote hinges on loosening marijuana laws. How sad.

So true.