Bonam Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 The question really is... should anyone as stupid and ignorant as we are be trying to help anyone? Best thing we can do for people in that region is stand perfectly still and be very quiet. That and yell about how bad evil Israel is, of course. Sorry, couldn't resist. I do agree with you though. When it comes to intervention in the middle-east, less is more. Quote
Topaz Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Perhaps if NATO countries had stay out of Iraq and Libya, there wouldn't be so much destruction and people dying in those countries today. I feel for those people in the Middle-East because for many years to come, NATO will be at war until they get the power they want over the region. Quote
GostHacked Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Al Jazeera just reported that the USA has just sent 130 military "advisors" into Iraq. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/us-sends-130-more-military-advisers-iraq-2014812233230394936.html It was pointed out that these are not "boots on the ground". These soldiers must be hovering just above the surface. Is this "mission creep"? Like it was not war in Libya. It was a 'limited scope kinetic military action'. Orwell had it right. What is your problem? People are fleeing for their lives, and you wanna use this, and post this as some type of poltical football? Have you no shame? Have you no effing shame? Remember how Bush and Cheney used 9/11 as a political football. Have they no shame? Quote
GostHacked Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) You continue to spread false information. The West considered supporting the Free Syrian Army, which is a seperate entity from ISIS. Why don't you know this? ISIS formed, and has been forming, drawning on all kinds of jihadi's from neigbouring countries for months, not weeks. They took their first Iraqi city back in January. Can you could how many months ago that was? Cause it's a hell of a lot more than a few weeks. The US IS supporting the FSA. They may be a separate entity, but the US/West/NATO is backing the Free Syrian Army. I think I made a few posts around here somewhere. OH yes here is the thread. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22485-syria-war/ If you wanna talk about false information Shady. Find those WMDs in Iraq yet? Did we get that evidence in the form of a mushroom cloud? No? Ok. Edited August 13, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
Big Guy Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Posted August 13, 2014 Well, not really. The problem is we really suck at it. The reason these people are under attack in the first place is because we changed the balance of power over there without really having a clue what we were doing. We put the Iranians in charge of Iraq through shia proxies, and now we face the inevitable pushback by sunnis, and the bathists that we deposed. The question really is... should anyone as stupid and ignorant as we are be trying to help anyone? Best thing we can do for people in that region is stand perfectly still and be very quiet. I fully agree. I believe that our involvement in that region was based on the best of intentions truly believing that it would make things better for the locals. The problem is that the decision makers had very little understanding of the history, culture and evolution of the balance of power that existed. We may not have liked the dictatorships and monarchies that controlled the region but it created a far more stable living environment for the people than they now have - and hundreds of thousands have been killed. We also found out that democracy is a very complicated process which requires an educated citizenry to give up much of their decision making power to elected officials. A society has to evolve into a democracy. It is not something to be imposed on a society. I do agree that by meddling we have started a process that we no longer are able to control. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Again, given the choice to respond to a number of interesting and provocative (you may have to look that up) posts you choose to challenge me again. To challenge you? There's that massive ego on display again. I simply responded to a long winded post where you ranted about my not being nice to you and told you to grow up. It appears you have chosen otherwise, for here we have another long-winded whining post directed at me. Good for you! I had read some of your recent posts and your diatribes have become more contained and less abrasive so it appears that my giving you a verbal spanking has done some good. I hate to break this to you, bud, but your assumption you are even moderately capable of debate, let alone issuing a uh, 'verbal spanking' - don't you mean written, unless you're talking to yourself? - is simply an indication of your grandiose image of yourself. You may even find (if you continue on that road) that a few posters may start to take your opinions seriously. I doubt that will happen to you. Your posts are dreary regurgitation of facts culled from the imagination of lunatics posting on conspiracy sites, all put together with a massive sense of self-importance. Which would at least be mildly tolerable were they not immediately followed by whiny indignation whenever anyone points out their lack of logic or intelligence. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) Iraq has specifically requested assistance from the U.S., as have other nations in the past. If he didn't see it on RT or Al Jazeera it didn't happen... Edited August 13, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 If he didn't see it on RT or Al Jazeera it didn't happen... Because we know CNN, and Foxnews, and MSNBC and CBS, and ABC are valuable non partisan media outlets with the utmost integrity to report the news in a completely unbiased fashion. Am I doing this right? Quote
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Well, not really. The problem is we really suck at it. The reason these people are under attack in the first place is because we changed the balance of power over there without really having a clue what we were doing. We put the Iranians in charge of Iraq through shia proxies, and now we face the inevitable pushback by sunnis, and the bathists that we deposed. The population of Iraq is two thirds Shia and one third Sunni. I'm pretty sure you'd support majority rule anywhere else. Why not here? As far as attacks on Christians, they've been underway for many years around the Muslim world. Any time there isn't an absolute tyranny in place in a Muslim country where anyone who steps out of line is crushed you'll see violence directed at Christians and other religious minorities. What has happened of late is that in some cases the absolute tyrannies in place have been removed, as in Iraq, Syria and Libya. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Because we know CNN, and Foxnews, and MSNBC and CBS, and ABC are valuable non partisan media outlets with the utmost integrity to report the news in a completely unbiased fashion. Am I doing this right? Compared to RT they are. Al Jazeera doesn't spew propaganda in quite as blatant a fashion as RT but its prejudices are those of the Arab world, which is anti-Jew, anti-Israel and loves conspiracy theories. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Compared to RT they are. Al Jazeera doesn't spew propaganda in quite as blatant a fashion as RT but its prejudices are those of the Arab world, which is anti-Jew, anti-Israel and loves conspiracy theories. Speaking of propaganda, find those WMDs in Iraq yet? Quote
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Perhaps if NATO countries had stay out of Iraq and Libya, there wouldn't be so much destruction and people dying in those countries today. I feel for those people in the Middle-East because for many years to come, NATO will be at war until they get the power they want over the region. NATO doesn't give a shit about the region except insofar as ensuring oil keeps getting exported and that the local religious lunatics stay in their own countries and don't get their hands on any deliverable WMDs Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 Speaking of propaganda, find those WMDs in Iraq yet? You're aware that poison gas IS a WMD, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted August 13, 2014 Report Posted August 13, 2014 NATO doesn't give a shit about the region except insofar as ensuring oil keeps getting exported and that the local religious lunatics stay in their own countries and don't get their hands on any deliverable WMDs See now there is where the real issues lie, resources, oil specifically. And if the US had brought all their kit home after 'Mission Accomplished', ISIS would not be running around in Abrams or Humvees. Real smart move there. The WMDs might come from a major US contractor in a blowback type of scenario. It's not like that has happened before ... right?? And the poison gas thing. The world cried when the Kurds were gassed, but little was done militarily in order to hold Hussein accountable. But when you consider things like the Nigerian politician who apparently signed off on selling nuclear yellowcake to Iraq. You know the valuable information that 'Curveball' handed over to the US. That information has since proved to be false, because this 'Curveball' admitted he lied. I guess torture works? No wait, he gave the info willingly. Propaganda only happens in Russia? Quote
Big Guy Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Posted August 13, 2014 To ... intelligence. I have been asked to refrain from further responses to your derisive comments since it is beginning to become a distraction in some of the threads. You have forced me to use the ultimate insult that any poster can use on another. I have therefore decided to use the nuclear option – the major trump card – the final solution. You will be ignored! Your most recent posts have shown that you are trying to clean up your act. Good for you. In deference to requests from other posters, I am sorry but I can no longer volunteer as your target. If your attitude continues to improve I may refer to you again. But for now - I have no other choice. Are you ready? On the count of three you will disappear from existence in my sphere. Here it goes; three, two, one ......... POOF! Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 I have been asked to refrain from further responses to your derisive comments You mean you've been told to stop insulting me? Fine. You have forced me to use the ultimate insult that any poster can use on another. I have therefore decided to use the nuclear option – the major trump card – the final solution. You will be ignored! Couldn't care less. I'm still going to point out the ignorance and absent logic in your posts whenever they occur on a topic I'm posting to. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 See now there is where the real issues lie, resources, oil specifically. And if the US had brought all their kit home after 'Mission Accomplished', ISIS would not be running around in Abrams or Humvees. Real smart move there. The problem is they keep trying to set up these home grown armies in areas where there isn't the culture for them, and where the 'army' has zero loyalty to those up above them. They have no particular loyalty to their units, and none to their government, so if faced with a serious threat they run. The Iraqi army could have easily dealt with ISIS. They had far superior numbers and gear. They were just lousy soldiers who didn't give a damn. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 The problem is they keep trying to set up these home grown armies in areas where there isn't the culture for them, and where the 'army' has zero loyalty to those up above them. They have no particular loyalty to their units, and none to their government, so if faced with a serious threat they run. The Iraqi army could have easily dealt with ISIS. They had far superior numbers and gear. They were just lousy soldiers who didn't give a damn. With the left behind kit that ISIS is running with , might make them more powerful than the Iraqi military. Remember, weekly bombings of the past two years could not be stopped by Iraq's military/police. You think they have a chance against ISIS? The invasion of 2006 did more than gut military and police forces, it quite possibly gutted the moral. Quote
dre Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 The problem is they keep trying to set up these home grown armies in areas where there isn't the culture for them, and where the 'army' has zero loyalty to those up above them. They have no particular loyalty to their units, and none to their government, so if faced with a serious threat they run. The Iraqi army could have easily dealt with ISIS. They had far superior numbers and gear. They were just lousy soldiers who didn't give a damn. ISIS moved through areas that are predominantly disenfranchized sunnis. The soldiers didnt want to fight in these areas for an entity (the Shia/Iranian Proxy/US backed government) that nobody there wanted. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
The_Squid Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 America should go in and do it right this time. Completely take over everything in the country, regardless of how long it takes or what it costs. They need to clean up the mess they created. This would probably take hundreds of thousands of troops. Begin the draft. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Canada can't/won't even air drop pallets of water in Iraq, but has the master plan for what the Americans should do. As is your style...LOL ! Edited August 15, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 You know you are on the right track of thinking when BC_2004 tries to derail a thread. Quote
jbg Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 You know you are on the right track of thinking when BC_2004 tries to derail a thread. As an American, I just don't see what problem BC-2004 has with Canada or Canadians. I happen to think Canada's a pretty good country, one I'm proud to have a neighbor. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 As an American, I just don't see what problem BC-2004 has with Canada or Canadians. I happen to think Canada's a pretty good country, one I'm proud to have a neighbor. Such is your choice, but this "merikan" is not going to be willfully blind to the obvious anti-"merikan" positions on display here and in Canadian media by some Canadians. They can dish it out but can't take it ? Sorry, but turnabout is fair play. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 15, 2014 Report Posted August 15, 2014 Yay...Canada is finally moving on Iraq. I knew they could do it with strong leadership from PM Harper: Canada is committing two cargo planes to move military supplies into northern Iraq as part of the international effort to bolster Kurdish forces in the embattled region. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iraq-conflict-canada-to-fly-weapons-to-kurdish-forces-1.2737723 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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