Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 no you can't put a corporation in jail... you can only put the people operating it in jail... likewise when a corporation pays taxes... who pays it? the walls of the building of the coporation? no, they come directly from the leadership operating the corporation... Corporations are people and you validated that fact with your own example. Corporations are not people just because they are run by people. Is a bulldozer a person because it's run by a person? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Ok, they were rude and you should have told them. But in the grand scheme of things, what to make of it other than rudeness?. On the grand scheme of things what I make of it is that we ought to all speak the same language. As I've said earlier, if Quebecers had not kept their language this would be quite a different country today, with zero threat of separation. Edited July 10, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 On the grand scheme of things what I make of it is that we ought to all speak the same language.How utterly and incredibly boring. Languages heard and spoken can be enriching, they expand the brain, and are useful in many ways. Quote
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 In your situation, I would assume that your colleagues did not know that them speaking their native language in front of you made you uncomfortable. Perhaps if you made them aware then that might not have happened. They knew. They were just thoughtless and stupid. In fact, I recall a board meeting once where a woman (francophone) interupted a multiple sided conversation by pointing out that several of us were English and people should speak English. There was a brief silence, with people looking at her, and then the conversation continued in French. The culture of the public service in Ottawa does not allow Anglophones to complain about anything regarding language, certainly not in an office which is 90% French. The general attitude among Francophones is "too bad if you don't speak French. You should learn". I did, as I said, toss people out of my office at times, but there is no question that they all knew perfectly well that several of us anglos didn't speak French. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) No, I'm used to it. Being used to it does not necessarily mean you don't feel excluded. I recall my mother talking about wonderful it felt to walk around on the streets of Ottawa and hear people speaking in English - after we had moved from Quebec. Language is how people communicate. When you're out on the street, in stores, at work, and all around you, people are communicating in a foreign language, it cannot but help make you feel excluded -- and resentful. Edited July 10, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 Language is how people communicate. When you're out on the street, in stores, at work, and all around you, people are communicating in a foreign language, it cannot but help make you feel excluded -- and resentful.Argus, it may make YOU feel that way, but I assure you it does not to the people I see and hang with. What the hell do youi do when travelling? I was in Shanghai last Nov and in the short time I was there it was great. People would find a way to talk w me or help me. (but then again, they knew I had moneyand wanted to spend) Quote
dre Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 Being used to it does not necessarily mean you don't feel excluded. I recall my mother talking about wonderful it felt to walk around on the streets of Ottawa and hear people speaking in English - after we had moved from Quebec. Language is how people communicate. When you're out on the street, in stores, at work, and all around you, people are communicating in a foreign language, it cannot but help make you feel excluded -- and resentful. You are projecting your own bias onto others. It does not bother me one single iota when people on the street speak their own language, and most people I know could not care less. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder, and THAT is the issue here not ESL Canadians. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 Argus, it may make YOU feel that way, but I assure you it does not to the people I see and hang with. What the hell do youi do when travelling? I was in Shanghai last Nov and in the short time I was there it was great. People would find a way to talk w me or help me. (but then again, they knew I had moneyand wanted to spend) How one feels when surrounded by foreigners in Shanghai and how one feels when surrounded by foreigners in your own home town are entirely dissimilar. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 You are projecting your own bias onto others. It does not bother me one single iota when people So I am projecting my bias, but you, of course, are one with the world, and all agree with you. Have I got that right? Seems to me people were very recently telling me that it's entirely natural for people immigrating to Canada to want to live among their own kind and settle in ethnic ghetos. Like calls to like, as it were. But I guess, when dealing with a superior race, ie, the sensitive white liberal, such 'bias' has no affect. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 How one feels when surrounded by foreigners in Shanghai and how one feels when surrounded by foreigners in your own home town are entirely dissimilar.Again, to you, Not me. Quote
dre Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) So I am projecting my bias, but you, of course, are one with the world, and all agree with you. Have I got that right? Seems to me people were very recently telling me that it's entirely natural for people immigrating to Canada to want to live among their own kind and settle in ethnic ghetos. Like calls to like, as it were. But I guess, when dealing with a superior race, ie, the sensitive white liberal, such 'bias' has no affect. Youre projecting again. You are the one that suggested everyone else feels like you when you said this... When you're out on the street, in stores, at work, and all around you, people are communicating in a foreign language, it cannot but help make you feel excluded -- and resentful. YOU are the one thats sensitive... youre the one that feels "excluded and resentful". I dont even give a shit, and hardly notice. I wouldnt call that bias. But I guess, when dealing with a superior race, ie, the sensitive white liberal, such 'bias' has no affect. As with your other childish rants about liberals Im going to decline to get caught in the middle of a conversation between you and an imaginary group of people in your head Edited July 10, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Youre projecting again. You are the one that suggested everyone else feels like you when you said this. And you are doing exactly the same. But I am wrong to do so and you are righteous. Correct? Question. Why do so many immigrants settle in the same areas and live together? Edited July 10, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bob Macadoo Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 And you are doing exactly the same. But I am wrong to do so and you are righteous.Correct?Question. Why do so many immigrants settle in the same areas and live together? Actually no. You have taken your localized (ie work/neighbourhood) personal xenophobic experience and extrapolated it to all immigrants, dre and others have provided other misc experiences, data, etc. and have provided an antithesis....not the same at all. Quote
Argus Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 Actually no. You have taken your localized (ie work/neighbourhood) personal xenophobic experience and extrapolated it to all immigrants, dre and others have provided other misc experiences, data, etc. and have provided an antithesis....not the same at all. You didn't answer the question. You just puffed out your chest and said "Me too!" as if this constitutes a worthwhile addition to the conversation. It doesn't. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Question. Why do so many immigrants settle in the same areas and live together?Comfort, affordability, language, food , camraderie cultural affinity and so on. Been like that since Heysus was a baby. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 You didn't answer the question. You just puffed out your chest and said "Me too!" as if this constitutes a worthwhile addition to the conversation.It doesn't. Jacee's right....you get emotional easily.....any objectivity you possess is lost. Quote
PoliticalAtheist Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Corporations are not people just because they are run by people. Is a bulldozer a person because it's run by a person? Corporations are groups of people who act as a legal person... a bulldozer is an inanimate object... When you tax a corporation: who pays? the building, the xerox machines? the office? No... the shareholders and the people representing the company do... Bulldozers are not people... they are like the xerox machine or the office building of the corporation... . Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 The culture of the public service in Ottawa does not allow Anglophones to complain about anything regarding language Yes, the Ottawa culture is terrible with respect to languages. Especially when it comes to employment. Language is how people communicate. When you're out on the street, in stores, at work, and all around you, people are communicating in a foreign language, it cannot but help make you feel excluded -- and resentful. For me, excluded no (unless you are involved in the conversation, but that would just not make any sense from the speaker's part). Resentful? Certainly not. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 How one feels when surrounded by foreigners in Shanghai and how one feels when surrounded by foreigners in your own home town are entirely dissimilar. People aren't foreigners if they are immigrants... Question. Why do so many immigrants settle in the same areas and live together? 1. Distribution of economic opportunity. 2. To be in a more familiar environment. Actually no. You have taken your localized (ie work/neighbourhood) personal xenophobic experience and extrapolated it to all immigrants, dre and others have provided other misc experiences, data, etc. and have provided an antithesis....not the same at all. And the group that Argus is extrapolating from (Franco-Ontarians & Quebecers) aren't even immigrants... Quote
carepov Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 so far I've posed my question... and not a single person attempted to answer it directly... this is the problem I'm having when I talk about this... surely someone has SOMETHING beyond different ethnic restaurants... right? How about we just start with that. One advantage of living in a multicultural society like Canada is a wonderful selection of ethnic restaurants. Now, can you name a disadvantage that outweighs this benefit? Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 How about we just start with that. One advantage of living in a multicultural society like Canada is a wonderful selection of ethnic restaurants. Now, can you name a disadvantage that outweighs this benefit? What is an 'ethnic' restaurant? It's sort of like the term 'ethnic' voter. It doesn't make sense since everyone has an ethnicity. Quote
Argus Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Comfort, affordability, language, food , camraderie cultural affinity and so on. Been like that since Heysus was a baby. And these sorts of things don't appeal to English Canadians? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Jacee's right....you get emotional easily.....any objectivity you possess is lost. Emotional? I pointed out that your post contributed nothing and failed to address the question. That doesn't sound emotional to me. Besides, if I've left you with the impression I care what some anonymous internet schmuck thinks of my anonymous character, well, I heartily apologize. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Corporations are groups of people who act as a legal person... a bulldozer is an inanimate object... When you tax a corporation: who pays? the building, the xerox machines? the office? No... the shareholders and the people representing the company do... Bulldozers are not people... they are like the xerox machine or the office building of the corporation... . Corporations are not groups of people. I own stocks in many corporations, and I assure you that I'm not a part of that corporation at all. A corporation is a collection of assets, including bulldozers, in some cases, which are run by staff. As for tax, weren't you just saying corporations are people? If they're people, then they ought to be taxed. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) People aren't foreigners if they are immigrants... Now we're back to that arguemnt which says a Canadian is someone for whom a clerk has processed some documents, not someone who has any knowledge of or interest in Canada's history, culture, language or people. Not buying it. Just because some rich guy in Hong Kong pays a few pennies to buy himself a Canadian passport and keep it in his safe "just in case" I'm not going to consider him a Canadian. He's a foreigner to me. 1. Distribution of economic opportunity. 2. To be in a more familiar environment. 1. How is this economic opportunity any greater in an ethnic area than somewhere else? 2. So this sentiment of wanting to be in a familiar environment is something common to other people, but not something native born Canadians would ever feel? Edited July 11, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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