White People Can't Live Here - Six Nations Racism

[Bonam]

Thats exactly what they did. The treaties were negotiated between tribal governments and the crown. Not races.

And yet now they apply to people based on racial traits, not nationalities.

[dre]

And yet now they apply to people based on racial traits, not nationalities.

Not racial traits... heredity.

[TimG]

In a nation of laws contracts and treaties DO need to be respected.

Actually no. The state can void any contract it sees fit (as solar/wind operators are discovering in Spain). It can expropriate property and pay only what it considers to be fair market value. The test that matters is the public interest and it is generally in the public interest for the government to honor contracts. When it comes to native treaties the government is only obligated as long as the public wants it to be obligated. Edited June 23, 2014 by TimG

[Remiel]

Not racial traits... heredity.

Like serfdom.

[Smallc]

Me neither.

Nothing "divine" here: Just the fact of Kanata's prior occupancy by Indigenous Nations - pre-contact - and thus their pre-existing rights and titles to the land.

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Rights don't simply exist. That's impossible. They have to be granted by someone. The reality is that aboriginals are Crown subjects just like anyone else. The Proclamation they ratified and the treaties try signed confirm it. Every right they have flows from the Crown - period.

[Smallc]

Not racial traits... heredity.

Is that better somehow?

[bush_cheney2004]

... Every right they have flows from the Crown - period.

Such an idea is not only wrong...it is obscene to free people everywhere.

[Moonbox]

You misinterpret him. Maybe he termed it poorly, but he's not saying that natives don't have any rights sans Queen.

Either way, I always find it funny to see bush_cheney on these native topics. If only Canada had handled it's aboriginals like the Americans did in the 1800's right?

[Smallc]

The Crown is Canada. It is the place from which every law, Constitutional or otherwise, flows. Rights are not god given, contrary to the Declaration of Independence. Rights require a government system that is is willing and able to protect them. Without Canada, aboriginal Canadians - and they are Canadians have no rights.

[bush_cheney2004]

You misinterpret him. Maybe he termed it poorly, but he's not saying that natives don't have any rights sans Queen.

No, I think he posted what he truly believes. No Crown...no rights. This is not the case.

Either way, I always find it funny to see bush_cheney on these native topics. If only Canada had handled it's aboriginals like the Americans did in the 1800's right?

No suggestion has been made in that regard...it's something you thought of. The very existence of the U.S. is due in part because of the rejection of Kings and Crowns playing god from across an ocean.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Crown is Canada. It is the place from which every law, Constitutional or otherwise, flows. Rights are not god given, contrary to the Declaration of Independence. Rights require a government system that is is willing and able to protect them. Without Canada, aboriginal Canadians - and they are Canadians have no rights.

Oh sure....native people could only settle the continent with natural rights for thousands of years until Canada came along. Then they got some fancier rights from the "Crown", and lost their land and culture in the process. Such a deal.....

[hitops]

Oh sure....native people could only settle the continent with natural rights for thousands of years until Canada came along. Then they got some fancier rights from the "Crown", and lost their land and culture in the process. Such a deal.....

There is no minority people on earth who have as good a deal as our aboriginals. There is no group identified as a subgroup of any culture or nation than has so many favourable tax exclusions, educational preferences and funding, and other ethnic-specific benefits, on earth. They choose not to benefit from it. In many other places, minority groups with no specific allowances have done far better. Different cultures/values have different results.

My ancestors came here with nothing, we get no special treatment, and we do far better.

Another group I can think of are Philipinos and Indians. Both immigrant groups are successful, and demonstrate social cohesion. This is an environment that ANYONE can thrive in, if they really want to.

Edited June 23, 2014 by hitops

[bush_cheney2004]

There is no minority people on earth who have as good a deal as our aboriginals.

Even if that were true (it isn't)...so what ? Do you realize how patronizing and insulting it is to characterize native people's experiences from a very one sided perspective ?

[hitops]

Even if that were true (it isn't)...so what ? Do you realize how patronizing and insulting it is to characterize native people's experiences from a very one sided perspective ?

I'm not characterizing their experiences, I'm characterizing their results.

Do you know how patronizing and insulting it is to single out a given group for these benefits? Yet we do it, even though it keeps them down and dependent generation and generation.

Edited June 23, 2014 by hitops

[bush_cheney2004]

...Do you know how patronizing and insulting it is to single out a given group for these benefits? Yet we do it, even though it keeps them down and dependent generation and generation.

Then the "Crown" only has itself to blame. The "aboriginals" will and should explore every avenue to settle land claims and force compliance with treaties that recognize self determination.

[Smallc]

No treaty recognizes self determination outside of the jurisdiction Crown.

[hitops]

Then the "Crown" only has itself to blame. The "aboriginals" will and should explore every avenue to settle land claims and force compliance with treaties that recognize self determination.

Maybe someday we will move past the era where rights to land depends on your bloodlines, and all Canadians are treated equally.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe someday we will move past the era where rights to land depends on your bloodlines, and all Canadians are treated equally.

Sure...that would complete the trifecta for ALL the land and resources. God save the Queen !

[Smallc]

It would complete the idea of equality for sure.

[Moonbox]

No suggestion has been made in that regard...it's something you thought of. The very existence of the U.S. is due in part because of the rejection of Kings and Crowns playing god from across an ocean.

as well as their official policies of genocide against their aboriginal peoples. The Americans kept things much more *ahem* tidy...

Edited June 23, 2014 by Moonbox

[dre]

Maybe someday we will move past the era where rights to land depends on your bloodlines, and all Canadians are treated equally.

Maybe... but if we do it will be through negotiations with first nations, not by refusing to honor treaties we signed with them in contravention of both domestic and international law. We are already seeing treaties that partially undo the origional deals we made with natives. We are giving back some of the land that we got in those deals, and they are giving back some of the benefits they were given in return for that land.

[Smallc]

Giving back land? Where has this happened? The land is still Canadian soil, the usage has simply changed.

[dre]

Giving back land? Where has this happened?

Key Features of the Agreement

The Nisga'a Treaty sets out the land and resources that form part of the agreement between Canada, B.C. and the Nisga'a Nation. The Treaty sets out the Nisga'a's right to self-government, and the authority to manage lands and resources. Together, the Treaty and related agreements provide the Nisga'a with:

• $196.1 million dollars (in 1999 dollars);
• 2,019 square kilometers of land;
• an average yearly allocation of 44,588 sockeye salmon, 11,797 coho salmon, 6,330 chum salmon, 6,524 chinook salmon, and 4,430 pink salmon, protected by the Treaty;
• a commercial yearly allocation averaging 28, 913 sockeye and 88,526 pink salmon under an agreement which is not part of the Treaty;
• limited allocations of moose, grizzly bear and goats, for domestic purposes;
• $11.8 million to increase participation in the general commercial fishery;
• $10.3 million in Canada's contribution to the Lisims Fisheries Conservation Trust (to which the Nisga'a provide $3.1 million);
• transition, training and one-time funding of $40.6 million;
• a water reservation for domestic, agricultural and industrial purposes;
• authority to operate their own government, and the ability to make certain laws; and,
• funding to help deliver health, education, and social services to their members and other area residents.

Prior to the Treaty, the Nisga'a Villages delivered health, education, social and other services through a variety of federal and provincial programs. These programs will now be delivered through the Nisga'a Lisims Government under a Fiscal Financing Agreement, which is not part of the Treaty. The first Fiscal Financing Agreement provides funding of $32.7 million per year (1999 dollars).

It is important to recognize that the Nisga'a Government will also contribute to the costs of these programs and services, thereby reducing federal and provincial transfers over time. The Nisga'a Government will help to finance programs and services in two ways:

• through payment of income and sales taxes; and,

• by contributing a share of its revenues.

Edited June 23, 2014 by dre

[Smallc]

It wasn't given back in the sense that it's not Canada anymore. It was given to them to manage. It's different.

[jacee]

Rights don't simply exist. That's impossible. They have to be granted by someone.

Who has that authority?

Only a monarch? By the divine right of kings?

Your statement is absolutely ridiculous.

The reality is that aboriginals are Crown subjects just like anyone else. The Proclamation they ratified and the treaties try signed confirm it. Every right they have flows from the Crown - period.

Ah! ... The divine right of kings again?

... that flows to the monarchs through the church from god?

Simply not true.

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