India is full of Crap

[Argus]

Little history lesson here for you kimmy, after the surrender of Japan, Mao and the fascists had a civil war in China and the communists won, while the fascists retreated to Taiwan under US protection

Fascists? They were not fascists, not that they were democrats either.

And Taiwan already had an indigenous population at the time. Various Chinese dynasties have, at times, had some or all control of the island, but in fact, the first actual nation to control the place, other than its indigenous people, was Holland. Control of the island was ceded to the Japanese after the Sino-\Japanese war, who gave it to the Nationalist Chinese after they retreated there following the Communist's victory.

All of which is historical. The only thing which really should matter today is what the locals want, and there's no sign the locals want to be part of China. Polls taken there over the last few decades have shown only 5% or 6% want to join the mainland.

[kimmy]

As far as your second comment goes, want to explain how it's different in the west?

We have rules. We don't have rivers turn inexplicably red, or have the air quality become so bad that people can't leave their homes.

-k

[WWWTT]

We have rules. We don't have rivers turn inexplicably red, or have the air quality become so bad that people can't leave their homes.

-k

I think they have rules there to that they are starting to enforce.

If you put Canada's population in one city (Shanghai), you're going to get air quality issues.

Same was the issue here to not to long ago and is still the case.

Guess you forgot about these cases here?

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVipTeFFTvAYAvjYXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBya3R2ZmV1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1397876947/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lenntech.com%2fenvironmental-disasters.htm/RK=0/RS=S976hVHSIoyAqsQb18KZ2Tmh7o8-

But now China is an industrialized country, how dare they have problems like any other industrialized nation!!!

Sounds like you're holding the Chinese to a higher standard than western nations

WWWTT

[Remiel]

Political differences are real differences. When was the last time you heard about Germany and Austria forming a single country? That was an idea that existed before long anyone had ever heard the name "Adolf Hitler" . The Germans and Austrians are still descended from the same people, yet the history of the Nazis and the Anschluss will probably mean it is not a thing again for a long, long time.

[WWWTT]

Political differences are real differences. When was the last time you heard about Germany and Austria forming a single country? That was an idea that existed before long anyone had ever heard the name "Adolf Hitler" . The Germans and Austrians are still descended from the same people, yet the history of the Nazis and the Anschluss will probably mean it is not a thing again for a long, long time.

The funny thing your talking about is that the European Union is becoming an country in itself as we move further into the future.

Are the toilets in India made in the EU?

I had to throw that in there because it sounds like I'm going to have to start a thread about China/Taiwan .

WWWTT

[-TSS-]

All they have left is another 110 million people to go. But China is changing it's one child policy, so we'll see how soon they pass them.

China uses toilets by the way.

WWWTT

A piece of cake:

http://geography.about.com/od/lists/a/2050pop.htm

[WWWTT]

A piece of cake:

http://geography.about.com/od/lists/a/2050pop.htm

So China would go through a reduction in population, while becoming the economic engine of the world???

Don't get me wrong, India is way up there too! But that is just one prediction.

WWWTT

[overthere]

It just reinforces how incredibly different other cultures are, in that they can live like this. And it's not poverty. Africans don't do this. Neither do people in other third world countries.

Don't be so quick to dismiss India as primitive. They had a far more advanced society that Europe did a few thousand tears earlier.

I guess you haven't travelled much..... there is shit on the ground everywhere except perhaps here and a few Western countries.

Tyhe only reason Africa in general is not as filthy as India is that Africa is more poor and thus has less packaging. It's also less densely populated with much less industry than India.

I've been to both India and Africa more than once for both and for extended periods. In terms oif culture, Africa overall is far more different from us than India.

I hope to spend six months in India soon, most likely in the south. I think, from my personal experience, that it is easily one of the more interesting places in the world to visit.

A friend compared it to something we have all seen:

you are out in your car with your dog. The dog loves to hang its head out the window and let the wind blast all those smells,s ights, colours, sounds.....

In india, I'm the dog. It's a sensory hurricane.

[guyser]

I hope to spend six months in India soon, most likely in the south. I think, from my personal experience, that it is easily one of the more interesting places in the world to visit.

A friend compared it to something we have all seen:

you are out in your car with your dog. The dog loves to hang its head out the window and let the wind blast all those smells,s ights, colours, sounds.....

In india, I'm the dog. It's a sensory hurricane.

Sadly I wish we were friends becuase I cant get anyone to go to India with me. I would be ecstatic to go and see it all.

Yea, the dirt the smell, the crush, all different (unnerving at times)but wonderfully exciting.

But..............ah the fooooooood !!!! Street food ftmfw

[-TSS-]

As flying is a complete no-no for me because of fear of flying the only place in the world that I really regret that I'm never gonna see is Australia. I doubt it very much that there's gonna be inventions during my lifetime that going by boat to Australia would last any tolerable amount of time.

[Rue]

Look flush toilets which everyone takes for granted in urban Canada require water. Since the vast majority of the world has water shortages, flush toilets are problematic-there is no water, let alone sufficient water to waste flushing gallons of it for each pee or poo. Some of you need to just use common sense on that one.

Next, outhouses are necessary I suppose if you live in an environment where it rains or snows and you want shelter doing your business or perhaps you simply want privacy but if you live in a rural area with no one about, you would not necessarily need the privacy.

If you live in a society in touch with nature, you know when you shit, you bury it or it attracts insects or predators or your enemy. You either bury it or you do it in an isolated area where if the insects come no one cares or if your enemy or a predator comes they can' locate you..

If you live in the desert, when you crap the sand soon buries it from the wind. If you live in the North with permafrost its gonna sit there and freeze up in the winter and eventually break down and blow into the wind.

Soldiers who fought in deserts were taught to dig deep and bury their smell of crap and pee because it carries in the air and gives their position away because the smell will carry over many miles in the desert air.

When you live in heavily populated area, you lose touch with the natural rules of your environment however and that is why people crap in crowded impoverished cities. It also is what causes we supposed first world civilized people to crap in public as well. Oh we don't crap we have flush toilets but take a look at the crap we leave behind-garbage, air pollution, chemicals...

Crowding in humans causes them to become oblivious to their surroundings and thus they pollute, defecate and urinate, literally on themselves. It is a physical reaction to stress and overcrowding.

Inhibitiions and common sense break down. The density of population serves as an agent to disinhibit much like a gang does when you join it.

When you are in a gang or in a crowd or over populated area, that lack of space causes your front lobe to react the way it does when you drink.

You lose certain judgement and your perceptions and standards become distorted.

People when placed in over-crowded situations and this has been deliberately tested will not only urinate and defecate on one another but adapt to the smell and even dead bodies. This is why we pollute and live in the pollution we dump on ourselves. The brain adapts to such situations or as some would say copes by reducing the standards of what was once "normal" behaviour. We in fact compromise.

One of the things some people need to do is travel to get a perspective as to what we take for granted in Canada does not exist in much of the world and certainly does not exist for the majority of the people on this planet and whether you shit in public or pollute in public its all relative and pretty much the same behaviour.

Before you ridicule Indians for shitting in public consider this-their issue is extreme poverty, over population and lack of water. What is our excuse? Oh sure we have flush toilets-how civilized, now explain to me how is it we produce in North America and Western Europe where all the flush toilets are,all the pollution we do? Yah look at the Indian man defecating how savage...what is our excuse for dumping what we do in our environment?

What's worse some peasant shitting on the ground or civilized first world people such as us dumping mercury, pcb's, nuclear waste, toxic chemicals, into our land fills and water supplies?

In the grand scheme of things surely what we are doing in the first world is far more damage to our environment than some peasant shitting on a dirt road.

Before any of us look down on dirty peasants so to speak, I say look at the amount of pollution we are causing. How does that make us better?

Do not tell me some peasant squatting and shitting is more of a health hazard then our dumping lethal chemicals into our water-ways.

Oh and by the way,China is the no. 2 food producer of the world. This means among other things any food in jars, cans or has been dried, i.e., fruit in cereal, probably came from China. Better keep that in mind because the Chinese use human feces as fertilizer.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Rue

[bleeding heart]

Thanks, Rue...some much-needed perspective.

[-TSS-]

Indeed, many people in countries such as Canada or Finland which have vast sweet water-reserves don't realize what a treasure they have. Could be a reason for wars in the future. Sometimes on a hot summer day when you see somebody washing his car by hosing sweet water on it, it makes you think that in some countries you would probably go to jail for such a misuse of water.

[Bryan]

Next, outhouses are necessary I suppose if you live in an environment where it rains or snows and you want shelter doing your business or perhaps you simply want privacy but if you live in a rural area with no one about, you would not necessarily need the privacy.

There's more to it than privacy, it is a sanitation issue. I grew up in a very rural area, up north. We had no running water, and only a wood stove for heat in the winter. An outhouse was still considered a necessity to keep the excrement and the smell well away from the cabin.

That's why the lack of toilets of any sort are jaw dropping to Canadians -- we would always have some semblance of one even in places where it would not affect other people, never mind where it clearly does by having everyone walking in each others crap.

[Rue]

Well stated Bryan.

[jbg]

The campaign is "Take your poo to the loo" if you can believe it, completely with mascot (!) and jingles![/url]

Quite catchy. Is there a Hindi equivalent that rhymes?

[overthere]

Sadly I wish we were friends becuase I cant get anyone to go to India with me. I would be ecstatic to go and see it all.

Yea, the dirt the smell, the crush, all different (unnerving at times)but wonderfully exciting.

But..............ah the fooooooood !!!! Street food ftmfw

You don't need a companion. I have never felt unsafe anywhere in India.

The food is wonderful and .... cheap They have the largest train system in the world, good for long distance travel. They have also developed a reasonable system of airports in state capitals, easy way to get around too.

Buses are slow and packed usually, and the roads are not great anyway.

The one tip I would give to a India newbie is this: limit your time in Indian cities to a minimum. They do have some interesting places and activities, but they tend to be reqally noisy and busy. Instead, I suggest planning a trip around some of the world heritage sites, most of which are rural or small city locations. Hampi, Ajanta/Ellora, Trichy, Thanjavur etc etc etc. Beaches , jungles, the Kerala highlands, Jaisalmer, Ranakpur and many other places are incredible .

[guyser]

Thanks for the info, will keep it in mind.

[Argus]

Don't be so quick to dismiss India as primitive. They had a far more advanced society that Europe did a few thousand tears earlier.

That's nice. It's not a few thousand years ago. It's today. India IS primitive. Anywhere people squat and drop their crap in the street is primitive.

[Argus]

Before any of us look down on dirty peasants so to speak, I say look at the amount of pollution we are causing. How does that make us better?

Do not tell me some peasant squatting and shitting is more of a health hazard then our dumping lethal chemicals into our water-ways.

We're not simply talking about 'dirty peasants', but on the other hand, India sure seems to have a lot of them, and while the poo campaign is funny, it's not exactly isolated. That is, India is a mess in terms of pollution of every imaginable sort. Their rivers are full of garbage and half rotted bodies of both humans and animals. Pollution controls, what there is of them, are routinely ignored. The most polluted air in the world is in Indian cities. Garbage fills the streets and blows along the highways.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/india/130605/indian-garbage-dump

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/world/asia/cities-in-india-among-the-most-polluted-who-says.html?_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/india-river-pollution-sewage_n_2810213.html

Edited May 8, 2014 by Argus

[jbg]

We're not simply talking about 'dirty peasants', but on the other hand, India sure seems to have a lot of them, and while the poo campaign is funny, it's not exactly isolated. That is, India is a mess in terms of pollution of every imaginable sort. Their rivers are full of garbage and half rotted bodies of both humans and animals. Pollution controls, what there is of them, are routinely ignored. The most polluted air in the world is in Indian cities. Garbage fills the streets and blows along the highways.

I can't speak for the Canadian frontier days, since the RCMP was usually in areas prior to settlement and "peace, order and good government" were the order of the day. In the U.S. frontier days, this was not the case. I suspect the early days of settlement often are characterized by lack of concern for "externalties." Environmental degradation and dumping of human and other waste probably was rife.

In the case of India it contributes to their low cost of doing business.

[overthere]

That's nice. It's not a few thousand years ago. It's today. India IS primitive. Anywhere people squat and drop their crap in the street is primitive.

Pumping millions of gallons of raw sewage into the ocean is the sign of an advanced civilzation.

Hello Victoria.

[-TSS-]

The Ganges, their holy river, is practically a huge cesspool.

[Argus]

The Ganges, their holy river, is practically a huge cesspool.

And according to a study out today from the World Health Organization, India has the most polluted air in the world.

http://envirocenter.yale.edu/news/237/56/India-s-Air-the-World-s-Unhealthiest-Study-Says/d,newsDetail

[jbg]

And according to a study out today from the World Health Organization, India has the most polluted air in the world.

http://envirocenter.yale.edu/news/237/56/India-s-Air-the-World-s-Unhealthiest-Study-Says/d,newsDetail

No wonder they're excluded from Kyoto. The West gets sucker-played every time.