maplesyrup Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Fire strands Canadian sub in the Atlantic Waits for tow off coast of Scotland; caught fire underwater; nine crew reported injured Canada needs to become more independent in militarty matters, especially defence contracts. I suggest we more away from the war-mongers, Britain & the US, and start develpoping military relationships with countries we have more in common with. How many times are we going to get screwed before we wake up? This second-hand submarine is just the latest in a long series of misadventures. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Argus Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Fire strands Canadian sub in the AtlanticWaits for tow off coast of Scotland; caught fire underwater; nine crew reported injured Canada needs to become more independent in militarty matters, especially defence contracts. I suggest we more away from the war-mongers, Britain & the US, and start develpoping military relationships with countries we have more in common with. How many times are we going to get screwed before we wake up? This second-hand submarine is just the latest in a long series of misadventures. Whatever we build will cost 2-3 times what it would cost us to buy from someone else. Given our miltiary is already on the edge of collapse for lack of money I fail to see how we could possibly afford building everything ourself. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Newfie Canadian Posted October 5, 2004 Report Posted October 5, 2004 Well, if the throne speech today was any indication, it's not going to happen anytime soon, and there was another story out today that said the government asked all departments, I assume Defence included, to come up with a 5% reduction in their budgets. It's not looking good for our military. :angry: Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
maplesyrup Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Posted October 6, 2004 They had better keep enough money in the military budgets to cover lifejackets for Canada's sailors in these crappy submarines we keep getting from our "ALLIES" Canadian sub 'dead in the water', waiting for help Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
August1991 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Can somebody here explain to me why we bought submarines? If I understand properly, one lone submarine is currently floating somewhere off the coast of BC. What for? I would think that helicopters and various air and sea troop transports would be more sensible. Quote
Newfie Canadian Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 I'm going out on a limb and saying that one use for them would be Arctic patrol, as it seems as though the government has been looking to assert some concrete jurisdiction over it lately. At least there have been rumblings.... Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
caesar Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 Submarines can watch without being seen; they can be useful in detecting boats smuggling drugs or people into outr shorelines. Easier to watch without being detected. However, I would not trust these used submarines for the safety of our navy. Whose idea was it to buy used submarines without an iron clad guarantee of their condition????? Quote
playfullfellow Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 NC, I seem to remember reading this somewhere too. I don't think these subs are meant for any war time missions but rather too keep an eye on our coasts. It's not like we can afford to arm these things anyway. MS, if we were willing to spend a tonne more money on our military, then we might be able to build our own subs. But this would take us years if not decades to accomplish. I have to laugh at the fact that these subs that we bought are real lemons. Leave it to the Liberals to buy lemons but try to convince us they are sweet oranges. I doubt they also got them with a warranty too. Quote
Argus Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 I have to laugh at the fact that these subs that we bought are real lemons. Leave it to the Liberals to buy lemons but try to convince us they are sweet oranges. I doubt they also got them with a warranty too. Here's irony. Our idiotic defence minister claiming these werea good deal because other nations, like Australia, which built their own, had to pay far more for them. No doubt it would be news to him that these subs were offered to Australia first. The Australians sent an assessment team to have a look at them with a fine tooth comb, and they reported back that the subs had far too many problems, and advised against buying them. Apparently Canada didn't check under the hood like the Ausies did. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Newfie Canadian Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 The official word is that the Brits mothballed these things because they decided to go to a totally nuclear fleet, but after seeing this happen it makes me wonder if they decided to go to a nuclear fleet because these diesel/electric subs were duds. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Big Blue Machine Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 It turns out that the paper that the submarine was made out of, is fammablie. Quote And as I take man's last step from the surface, for now but we believe not too far into the future. I just like to say what I believe history will record that America's challenge on today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow. And as we leave the surface of Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and god willing we shall return with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17. Gene Cernan, the last man on the moon, December 1972.
Slavik44 Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 It turns out that the paper that the submarine was made out of, is fammablie. Paul Martin figured they would have close access to water, and didn't see a problem. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
Newfie Canadian Posted October 6, 2004 Report Posted October 6, 2004 For those of you who have not yet heard, a Canadian sailor injured in the fire aboard Chicoutimi has died. Politics and blame aside, I'd like to offer my condolences and prayers for this brave Canadian. http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...timi041006.html http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Big Blue Machine Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 The reason the governmnet bought these "subs" is that they were strapped for cash. A Conservative government would have bought better subs. Quote And as I take man's last step from the surface, for now but we believe not too far into the future. I just like to say what I believe history will record that America's challenge on today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow. And as we leave the surface of Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and god willing we shall return with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17. Gene Cernan, the last man on the moon, December 1972.
caesar Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 The reason the governmnet bought these "subs" is that they were strapped for cash. A Conservative government would have bought better subs. Yes, right. They would buy new subs to speed off to Iraq with Bush. Gee thanks. Where would the money come frome??? Health care. Sadly, one of the fellows on that Sub has died. Quote
kungfusion Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 For those of you who have not yet heard, a Canadian sailor injured in the fire aboard Chicoutimi has died. Politics and blame aside, I'd like to offer my condolences and prayers for this brave Canadian. http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...timi041006.html http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories That is unacceptable. Our soldiers couldnt fly a helicopter without crashing into the ground, and now they cant operate a submarine without it being left dead in the water. What's next, tanks exploding by itself? I just want to say that I am embarrassed to be a Canadian today. Quote
maplesyrup Posted October 7, 2004 Author Report Posted October 7, 2004 For those of you who have not yet heard, a Canadian sailor injured in the fire aboard Chicoutimi has died. Politics and blame aside, I'd like to offer my condolences and prayers for this brave Canadian. http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...timi041006.html http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories That is unacceptable. Our soldiers couldnt fly a helicopter without crashing into the ground, and now they cant operate a submarine without it being left dead in the water. What's next, tanks exploding by itself? I just want to say that I am embarrassed to be a Canadian today. I wish to offer my condolences to our dead sailer's family and comrades as well. This is indeed a very sad day, a real tragedy. I too believe that this is unacceptable but for different reasons. How dare you blame Canadians for defective equipment from the UK? Canada should sue the ass off Britain including calling in the British Ambassador for a severe dressing down, and Canada should seriously begin to find ways to withdraw and to disassociate themselves militarily from the British & American warmongers. :angry: Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Newfie Canadian Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 I'm not ashamed to be a Canadian, nor am I ashamed of our Armed Forces, as they continue to perform their duties with professionalism despite a serious lack of funding. I am ashamed, terribly ashamed, of a government that will not support the Armed Forces in the way that they should be, while the PM, ministers and MPs get all sorts of allowances, salaries and pensions for sitting on their butts. Senators gettting the same things and some of them don't even show up, and for the longest time one of them didn't even live in the country. I also agree with maplesyrup that the British, and the company that refitted the subs for Canadian use, should be forced to answer some very serious questions and be held to task if they are responsible for any of the problems that any of these subs have experienced. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
theloniusfleabag Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 'Canada' knew these subs were 'damaged goods' but decided that it would be cheaper to 'fix them up' than to buy new. What I find hard to believe is that they would send out a Sea King to be involved in the rescue mission. I was expecting it to crash into the sub and kill everybody. I guess Canada got the 'infamous tail-light' warranty on these subs, like buying a used car. Once the tail-lights are out of sight, the warranty's over! To lose a sailor's life over this is truly a sad, sad day for Canada. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
Newfie Canadian Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 The rescue mission was performed by the Royal Navy, so none of our decrepid Sea Kings took part. You're right though, they are Sea Kings, but not ours. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
caesar Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 That is unacceptable.Our soldiers couldnt fly a helicopter without crashing into the ground, and now they cant operate a submarine without it being left dead in the water. What's next, tanks exploding by itself? I just want to say that I am embarrassed to be a Canadian today. Kingfusion: how dare you insult our soldiers for a mechanical problem with equipment? I am embarrassed that YOU are a Canadian,too. Quote
Stoker Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Does anybody have proof as of yet the the fault lies with the United Kingdom/Royal Navy/the Subs themselves? Has the Human factor been ruled out? Our Sub crew training has been rushed over the last few years........ Perhaps we should wait until an investigation has been concluded until we start pointing fingers. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Newfie Canadian Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 I agree Stoker, but you have to admit that the fact that all 4 subs have had problems gotta make you wonder. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
caesar Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Stoker; electrical fires are usually not a human factor thing; at least not by the operators but by those who outfitted it and/or declared them safe to operate. Quote
Argus Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Our soldiers couldnt fly a helicopter without crashing into the ground, and now they cant operate a submarine without it being left dead in the water. What's next, tanks exploding by itself? I just want to say that I am embarrassed to be a Canadian today. I just want to say that I too am embarrassed that you are a Canadian. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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