Stoker Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 I agree Stoker, but you have to admit that the fact that all 4 subs have had problems gotta make you wonder. And what was the major problem before the fire? Flooding in the torpedo room. We, as in Canada, changed the torpedo room (and tubes) around so they could accomodate our old torps from our old subs......instead of buying new torps, torps that the Upholders/Victorias were designed for. We also put the (electrial) fire control system (a computer used to shoot the torpedos in a war) from our old subs into these subs, and took the orginal system designed for the subs out. If you change the engine in your car, well it's still under warentry, if something goes wrong, are you still covered? Stoker; electrical fires are usually not a human factor thing; at least not by the operators but by those who outfitted it and/or declared them safe to operate. Sheesh.......the bloody thing could have been caused by a 19 year old kid that was rushed through training , due to our undermanned and underfunded military. As I said, we should wait until there has been an investigation into the mater..........and remeber, every finger you point, there are three pointing back at yourselves. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
maplesyrup Posted October 7, 2004 Author Report Posted October 7, 2004 The reason the governmnet bought these "subs" is that they were strapped for cash. A Conservative government would have bought better subs. Conservatives would not have bot any subs at all because after their ridiculous tax cuts for the rich, there would be no money left for our military endeavours. Obviously being in the military, even during peacetime, can be very hazardous as this recent tragedy has shown us. This is a time when all Canadians should be pulling together for the sake of the safety of the rest of the crew, and for the peace of mind for the family and friends of the departed sailor. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Conservatives would not have bot any subs at all because after their ridiculous tax cuts for the rich, there would be no money left for our military endeavours. The conservatives wanted to buy more capable nuclear subs of the Americans/British/French. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Argus Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Conservatives would not have bot any subs at all because after their ridiculous tax cuts for the rich, there would be no money left for our military endeavours. The conservatives wanted to buy more capable nuclear subs of the Americans/British/French. Yeah well, that was a dumb idea. Unless we were going to pay for a decent sized military I would not want to spend a disproportionate amount of the money we do have on nuke subs. Give us some decent APCs first. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Big Blue Machine Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 Aren't all nuclear weapons banned from Canada? Quote And as I take man's last step from the surface, for now but we believe not too far into the future. I just like to say what I believe history will record that America's challenge on today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow. And as we leave the surface of Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and god willing we shall return with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17. Gene Cernan, the last man on the moon, December 1972.
Newfie Canadian Posted October 7, 2004 Report Posted October 7, 2004 When the British brought the boats out of storage, they found cracks in some key valves. Repairs and tests to certify the boats safe to dive took longer than expected.Though two of the four subs are now undergoing tests and some light duties, they're still far from fully operational. During HMCS Victoria's maiden voyage to its new home port of Esquimault, B.C., some equipment overheated due to a faulty ventilation system. Victoria had also been restricted to about 75 per cent of its 200-metre diving depth after a dent was discovered in its hull. Last March, an error by a crewman on HMCS Windsor flooded the engine room during sea trials. On the same trip, the hydraulic system that raises and lowers masts malfunctioned. Hundreds of litres of water also spilled into HMCS Corner Brook during a training exercise in June. Meanwhile, the budget for spare parts and engineering support for the used subs has almost tripled since Canada agreed to buy the vessels. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Stoker Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 Yeah well, that was a dumb idea. Unless we were going to pay for a decent sized military I would not want to spend a disproportionate amount of the money we do have on nuke subs. Give us some decent APCs first. Yeah, well why? One of our three oceans can't be patroled for the majority of the year, and the said ocean is looking to be resource rich. Also, nuclear subs (armed with Tomohawk crusie missiles) would afford our navy and armed forces with a true expediontary capability. WRT the cost.......me thinks that would have been factored in Aren't all nuclear weapons banned from Canada? Who said anything about nuclear weapons? As I said Newf.........let's wait until the investigation has been completed. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Big Blue Machine Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 The subs are nuclear, I thought they would have nuclear weapons on them too. Quote And as I take man's last step from the surface, for now but we believe not too far into the future. I just like to say what I believe history will record that America's challenge on today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow. And as we leave the surface of Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and god willing we shall return with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17. Gene Cernan, the last man on the moon, December 1972.
Stoker Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 You live back east right? Any of the nuclear power plants out there have nuclear weapons in them? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Newfie Canadian Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 As I said Newf.........let's wait until the investigation has been completed. Agreed, Stoker. There are a lot of details to be looked at. The subs aren't nuclear. The subs are nearly identical to nuclear subs in design, except for their diesel-electric engines. I assume that they are or were capable of carrying nuclear weapons, as the UK is a nuclear power. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Stoker Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 The subs aren't nuclear I know that, never said otherwise. What I did say, was that the Conservatives during the cold war wanted nuke boats over SSKs. I assume that they are or were capable of carrying nuclear weapons, as the UK is a nuclear power. Possably, but not without mods. I'd think so, since the Americans can launch nuclear armed tomahawks from their sub's torpedo tubes, and we use a version of the same torpedo as the Americans (mk 48). I'm not 100% though. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
caesar Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 The conservatives wanted to buy more capable nuclear subs of the Americans/British/French. Yes, as long as they are not in power paying the bills they want to buy nothing but the best. I do believe, at least Vancouver; is a nuclear free zone. Quote
playfullfellow Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 Yes, as long as they are not in power paying the bills they want to buy nothing but the best. I do believe, at least Vancouver; is a nuclear free zone. I dont know about being nuclear free, it seems to me the Fraser river just about glows in the dark at times. All kidding aside, shouldn't our soldiers have the best we can get? Why is it that we always get the stuff that has to be held together with bubble gum and duct tape? It ends up costing a lot more freaking money in the long run repairing this crap. We demand that employers supply their employees with the safest possible equipment, why not the military? I still don't really know that buying subs was a good idea in the first place unless you are talking about patroling the arctic. But heck, even the Danes can land in the north and they are a country the size of Vancouver Island. How long before the Liberals admit they don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to the military. Quote
Stoker Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 Yes, as long as they are not in power paying the bills they want to buy nothing but the best. I do believe, at least Vancouver; is a nuclear free zone. ??? Who was the Prime Minister in 1987? Now go read the 1987 defence white paper. WRT vancouver being a nuclear free zone..........so? Victoria and Halifax are not, thats all that would really mater I still don't really know that buying subs was a good idea in the first place unless you are talking about patroling the arctic. Do you think having the ablitiy to allow our surface fleet and maritime aircraft the ablitiy to train against a deadly threat to any nation that relys on the oceans, is not a good idea? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
maplesyrup Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Posted October 8, 2004 As I suspected. The sooner Canada pulls out of any military dealings with Britain or the US the better off we will be They are just another bunch of dirty scumbag businessmen: Brits 'hoodwinked' us over rusty boats: official Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Argus Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 As I suspected. The sooner Canada pulls out of any military dealings with Britain or the US the better off we will be They are just another bunch of dirty scumbag businessmen:Brits 'hoodwinked' us over rusty boats: official Another take on the affair would be that the sooner Canada stops electing incompetent morons to office the better off we'll be. Art Eggleton knew absolutely nothing about the military. Small wonder it was easy to "hoodwink" him. Likewise, the current defence minister knows absolutely ZERO about anything and everything related to military matters. So why were they named defence ministers? Because the Liberals consider it a minor post of no importance, always underfunded and ignored. I wouldn't blame the Brits for selling us subs which needed work. We did get them for a huge, cut-rate price, after all. If we didn't bother to look them over that's OUR fault. The Australians were offered these subs. They sent teams over to look them over and then declined. So long as we, as a nation, refuse to properly fund and organize our military we'll have to take the castoffs from other, richer nations. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 The conservatives wanted to buy more capable nuclear subs of the Americans/British/French. Yes, as long as they are not in power paying the bills they want to buy nothing but the best. I do believe, at least Vancouver; is a nuclear free zone. Do you really think anyone gives a crap that Vancouver's city council called themselces "nuclear free". Do you think the Vancouver PD is going to sail out to a nuclear powered sub and issue a ticket? There are two major problems with our military: It is underfunded. It is extraordinarily poorly run, with most of the money it does get going to civilians and wasteful procurement caused by graft and political corruption. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Newfie Canadian Posted October 8, 2004 Report Posted October 8, 2004 There are two major problems with our military:It is underfunded. It is extraordinarily poorly run, with most of the money it does get going to civilians and wasteful procurement caused by graft and political corruption. I thought that was pretty well summed up Argus Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Newfie Canadian Posted October 9, 2004 Report Posted October 9, 2004 New article on CTV website about the SAR Cormorants. They are costing more to maintain than was advertised by EHI, the company that built them. Go figure. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._10/?hub=Canada Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
caesar Posted October 9, 2004 Report Posted October 9, 2004 I must say thanks to the American tug that is towing our guys and sub into safe waters much more quickly than the British tug was. Thanks guys. Quote
Newfie Canadian Posted October 9, 2004 Report Posted October 9, 2004 Yes, a nice touch of class there. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
maplesyrup Posted October 10, 2004 Author Report Posted October 10, 2004 Guys....I hate to break it to you, but we are not at war. When Canada is at war we'll get our act together militarily. Untill then we will continue to pay down the debt. You can't do it all. We made decisions about 10 years ago to seriously begin paying down our debt, which forced all government departments, including our Armed Forces, to cut back on expenditures. Money doesn't grow on trees, and even if it did, there are not too many good sized trees left in Canada. It is a question of priorities, n'est pas? Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted October 10, 2004 Report Posted October 10, 2004 Guys....I hate to break it to you, but we are not at war. When Canada is at war we'll get our act together militarily. Untill then we will continue to pay down the debt. My house is not on fire, I'm not being attacked by a person at this moment and I'm not having a heart attack..........I want all my tax dollars back that go towards the local fire department, RCMP detachment and the BC Amblulance service. With that said, the moment my house is on fire, I'm being attacked and I'm having a heart attack, then I want at that instance to start paying, thus start receiving the service. Infact, I think the entire country should work like that. Let's save money by getting rid of the trained professionals, and only pay for them when we need them.......... Well I'm having a heart attack, I'm sure we can just "spit out a doctor" when we need one Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
maplesyrup Posted October 10, 2004 Author Report Posted October 10, 2004 Stoker.....there is only so much money available, and we had to make choices debt vs military. Somehow you are completely missing the point. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted October 10, 2004 Report Posted October 10, 2004 Stoker.....there is only so much money available, somehow you are completely missing the point. Wouldn't my plan save vast amounts of money? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.