BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[TimG]

If I were a teacher the $40 would make no difference at all in the negotiations.

Lost wages were used to sweeten prior deals. The fact that those lost wages are off the table changes the dynamic of the strike whether you want to admit it or not.

The longer the schools are closed, public pressure on both parties will continue to increase.

The government could just legislate the teachers back to work. It is trying to give the collective bargaining process a chance but the teachers are insisting on wage demands that the government cannot meet and negotiation on the non-wage issues cannot start until the teachers accept the wage package that other unions have agreed to.

The lawsuit also complicates things. If the government loses the appeal it could on the hook for billions that would have to come out of other programs. A negotiated deal is the only way to eliminate that uncertainty. Personally, I am curious how popular the teachers would be if they won their lawsuit and the government was force to slash things like the healthcare budget to make up the the difference. Would people finally wake up and realize that the government does not have magic money tree that can be used to satisfy the whims of already well compensated unions?

Edited August 24, 2014 by TimG

[Wilber]

Lost wages were used to sweeten prior deals. The fact that those lost wages are off the table changes the dynamic of the strike whether you want to admit it or not.

I don't have a problem with that money being off the table, it is after all, payment for services not received from the teachers, or the government. I do have a problem with it being used for baby sitting money for kids under 13. People with kids over 12 get dick. Parents are continually digging into their own pockets for school related equipment and activities. Use the money saved to relieve some of those costs for the coming year.

The government could just legislate the teachers back to work. It is trying to give the collective bargaining process a chance but the teachers are insisting on wage demands that the government cannot meet and negotiation on the non-wage issues cannot start until the teachers accept the wage package that other unions have agreed to.

They say they are within 1% on wages. Shouldn't be an issue.

The lawsuit also complicates things. If the government loses the appeal it could on the hook for billions that would have to come out of other programs. A negotiated deal is the only way to eliminate that uncertainty. Personally, I am curious how popular the teachers would be if they won their lawsuit and the government was force to slash things like the healthcare budget to make up the the difference. Would people finally wake up and realize that the government does not have magic money tree that can be used to satisfy the whims of already well compensated unions?

Guess they better legislate them back if that is the case, because obviously it is impossible for them to negotiate if they don't know what their costs are. Of course, instead of negotiating around the present court decision, they decided to appeal so I guess they have no one but themselves to blame for being in this position.

[Derek 2.0]

Personally, I am curious how popular the teachers would be if they won their lawsuit and the government was force to slash things like the healthcare budget to make up the the difference. Would people finally wake up and realize that the government does not have magic money tree that can be used to satisfy the whims of already well compensated unions?

Or better yet, an increase in taxes to fund a new teacher contract, and in turn, a new contract for nurses (who are on deck).....

I advocate for an “educational consumption tax” to be placed on school supplies, coupled with an annual service charge, along the same lines as the MSP, for BC parents with children in public schools….

[Wilber]

Or better yet, an increase in taxes to fund a new teacher contract, and in turn, a new contract for nurses (who are on deck).....

I advocate for an “educational consumption tax” to be placed on school supplies, coupled with an annual service charge, along the same lines as the MSP, for BC parents with children in public schools….

They already pay out of pocket for many things the system paid for in the past. Education is not a user pay system. Someone else paid for me to be educated in the public school system. Now it's my turn to pay.

Our standard of living depends on producing educated people who can provide the services and tax base our economy needs to function.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Wilber

[Derek 2.0]

They already pay out of pocket for many things the system paid for in the past. Education is not a user pay system. Someone else paid for me to be educated in the public school system. Now it's my turn to pay.

Our standard of living depends on producing educated people who can provide the services and tax base our economy needs to function.

So you'd favour a tax increase to fund the BCTF's demands?

I wonder what the majority of BC residents would favour?

[Wilber]

So you'd favour a tax increase to fund the BCTF's demands?

I wonder what the majority of BC residents would favour?I believe you get what you pay for. Education is fundamental to the health of an economy and society. If a tax increase is required, then so be it. Our governments seem to have no problem going way over budget on poorly costed capital projects.

Depends which demands you are speaking of. I doesn't seem like wages are the primary issue here and I don't think that other unions can use class composition as a bargaining tool in their negotiations. I believe you get what you pay for and education is fundamental to the health of a society, Even more than health care, because without well educated people you can't supply that either. If a tax increase is required to maintain or improve it, that would be money far better spent than some of the poorly costed, way over budget capital projects this government has indulged in.

[Derek 2.0]

Depends which demands you are speaking of. I doesn't seem like wages are the primary issue here and I don't think that other unions can use class composition as a bargaining tool in their negotiations.

Yes and no, class composition is only an issue with elementary school teachers, not Middle or High school……..the wage and benefits are very much a part of the equation, which is why the BCTF often touts the fact that they are one the lowest paid group of teachers in Canada!!!

Of course, supply and demand comes into play, as there are far too many teachers in the province, and is one of the reasons the BCTF has rejected a BC Government offer (which is already bargained into the recent CUPE contract) for additional CUPE teaching aides…….with the BCTF demanding additional teaching support for special needs students being met with Teachers (and BCTF members) in the classroom and not educational assistants (CUPE members).

[Wilber]

Yes and no, class composition is only an issue with elementary school teachers, not Middle or High school……..the wage and benefits are very much a part of the equation, which is why the BCTF often touts the fact that they are one the lowest paid group of teachers in Canada!!!

Of course, supply and demand comes into play, as there are far too many teachers in the province, and is one of the reasons the BCTF has rejected a BC Government offer (which is already bargained into the recent CUPE contract) for additional CUPE teaching aides…….with the BCTF demanding additional teaching support for special needs students being met with Teachers (and BCTF members) in the classroom and not educational assistants (CUPE members).

Benefits maybe, but apparently not wages. Do you think the teachers union (or any other union for that matter) should be bound by what the government negotiates into other unions contracts? Do you think special needs students are not entitled to the same teaching standards as other children?

[Derek 2.0]

Benefits maybe, but apparently not wages. Do you think the teachers union (or any other union for that matter) should be bound by what the government negotiates into other unions contracts?

In these circumstances, since it addresses composition, yes.

Do you think special needs students are not entitled to the same teaching standards as other children?

Other students don't have assigned an individual EA…………Does a child with severe Downs Syndrome require a University educated teacher to help them color or go to the bathroom?

[Pct2017]

Yes and no, class composition is only an issue with elementary school teachers, not Middle or High school……..the wage and benefits are very much a part of the equation, which is why the BCTF often touts the fact that they are one the lowest paid group of teachers in Canada!!!

Of course, supply and demand comes into play, as there are far too many teachers in the province, and is one of the reasons the BCTF has rejected a BC Government offer (which is already bargained into the recent CUPE contract) for additional CUPE teaching aides…….with the BCTF demanding additional teaching support for special needs students being met with Teachers (and BCTF members) in the classroom and not educational assistants (CUPE members).

You have captured the conundrum that the BCTF finds itself in perfectly. They are very careful to use the phrase "class size and composition" in such a way that it would lead the masses to believe that you have to address both "issues". Of course, when those of us who are old enough to remember classes of 35 students bring this into the conversation, teachers (and students in YoungSocialists case) are quick to say there were not as many challenged students in the classes back then. Fair point. But why is it then not the case that if the government were to address class composition by providing more EA's then class size concerns should disappear? Could it simply be that today's teachers are less skilled than the previous generations of teachers, or is it that their union simply wants more members? Members who have to be paid for by us tax payers.

[Derek 2.0]

You have captured the conundrum that the BCTF finds itself in perfectly. They are very careful to use the phrase "class size and composition" in such a way that it would lead the masses to believe that you have to address both "issues". Of course, when those of us who are old enough to remember classes of 35 students bring this into the conversation, teachers (and students in YoungSocialists case) are quick to say there were not as many challenged students in the classes back then. Fair point. But why is it then not the case that if the government were to address class composition by providing more EA's then class size concerns should disappear? Could it simply be that today's teachers are less skilled than the previous generations of teachers, or is it that their union simply wants more members? Members who have to be paid for by us tax payers.

Of course, back then (and into the 90s) teachers benefited from the "Special Class" for special needs students......

I agree, the BCTF rejects wholesale the contribution their brothers and sisters in CUPE bring to the table

[Pct2017]

Of course, back then (and into the 90s) teachers benefited from the "Special Class" for special needs students......

I agree, the BCTF rejects wholesale the contribution their brothers and sisters in CUPE bring to the table

The other problem that the BCTF faces but refuses to acknowledge is that the "crisis" that they claim is in existence in BC schools is not quantified in any way. Yes, they love to trot out " horror" stories of a difficult work day for teachers (but, let us face it, they have the only job around where you get almost exactly one day off for every day worked, so they should be able to recover quite nicely) but the academic results of BC students are very high which would certainly contradict the existence of the crisis. And anytime you ask a teacher for some form of metric that would support their assertion of crisis, they resort back to antidotes and homilies.

[socialist]

The other problem that the BCTF faces but refuses to acknowledge is that the "crisis" that they claim is in existence in BC schools is not quantified in any way. Yes, they love to trot out " horror" stories of a difficult work day for teachers (but, let us face it, they have the only job around where you get almost exactly one day off for every day worked, so they should be able to recover quite nicely) but the academic results of BC students are very high which would certainly contradict the existence of the crisis. And anytime you ask a teacher for some form of metric that would support their assertion of crisis, they resort back to antidotes and homilies.

The government is rapidly losing public support. Here, PCT, read this to understand the hidden agenda of what is really going on in BC. I hope you can comprehend this.

http://www.remappingedu.com/shockdoctrineinbced/

[Derek 2.0]

And anytime you ask a teacher for some form of metric that would support their assertion of crisis, they resort back to antidotes and homilies.

Agreed........I hear it during the weekly family dinner.......Now what I've just heard, the 200 BCTF delegates voted to not return it's members back to work until a deal is reached....Of course teachers didn't get to vote on this....

Also, the BC Federation of Labour is going to stick their snout in further, with some factions calling for a General Strike!!

[Pct2017]

Also, the BC Federation of Labour is going to stick their snout in further, with some factions calling for a General Strike!!

Actually, I would be very surprised if that happened. Jim Sinclair et al have been holding this strike very much at arms length. Even the NDP and whoever is their leader (the worlds quietest politician) are virtually silent on this strike. I really do think that the BCTF is in this alone, guided only by their greed rather than common sense.

[Derek 2.0]

Actually, I would be very surprised if that happened. Jim Sinclair et al have been holding this strike very much at arms length. Even the NDP and whoever is their leader (the worlds quietest politician) are virtually silent on this strike. I really do think that the BCTF is in this alone, guided only by their greed rather than common sense.

BC Federation radio adds should start this week.........

[Pct2017]

BC Federation radio adds should start this week.........

Interesting. When I search "BC Federation of Labour BCTF" I actually get zero relevant results. And looking at the Fed's website, they have been silent since they put out a very tepid statement regarding the teachers back in June. Given that this is the only major labour dispute in the province, that silence seems deafening to me. Just a point of curiosity, is this a rumour emanating from the teachers? In my experience, some teachers and certainly 100% of their union have a bit of a disassociation with the truth. But time will tell.

[Derek 2.0]

Interesting. When I search "BC Federation of Labour BCTF" I actually get zero relevant results.

A benefit of having a BCTF delegate for an in-law I suppose

[WestCoastRunner]

BC Federation radio adds should start this week.........

Let's keep with the media blackout, and the ads and let them work out a deal.

[WestCoastRunner]

Let's keep with the media blackout, and the ads and let them work out a deal.

Although the government is behaving badly with the media blackout.

[Derek 2.0]

Let's keep with the media blackout, and the ads and let them work out a deal.

The BC Federation of Labour is doing the add campaign for the teachers, since the BCTF is broke………

[Derek 2.0]

Although the government is behaving badly with the media blackout.

Fassbender's media interviews are within the spirit of the blackout, since he's not a part of the negotiation team…………..

Another tidbit I’ve just come by: The BCTF has sent out a directive to all its members, barring them from tutoring or running an impromptu daycare during striking hours……in effect disallowing it’s own members, teachers, to earn some money to make up for lost wages and the strike pay that never was……

[WestCoastRunner]

Fassbender's media interviews are within the spirit of the blackout, since he's not a part of the negotiation team…………..

Another tidbit I’ve just come by: The BCTF has sent out a directive to all its members, barring them from tutoring or running an impromptu daycare during striking hours……in effect disallowing it’s own members, teachers, to earn some money to make up for lost wages and the strike pay that never was……

Fassbender's interviews are certainly not within the spirit of the blackout!

[WestCoastRunner]

Fassbender's interviews are certainly not within the spirit of the blackout!

He should have stayed out of it.

[Wilber]

Fassbender's media interviews are within the spirit of the blackout, since he's not a part of the negotiation team…………..

Nonsense, that's like saying a company CEO has no influence over his negotiating committees.