Justin Trudeau kicks all "Liberal" Senators out of Caucus.

[PIK]

What does this accompish??? They will still collect thier entitlements and how are these guys going to take it. It seems JT just called then corrupt by doing this. JT just might have stpeeped into a mine filed. But I am sure the media will protect him. Going to have to check out sun news for the truth about all this.

[Mighty AC]

Link?

And who cares if he stacked the Senate, there were vacant seats to be filled and he can't unilaterally abolish the Senate like the NDP would like.

Here you go: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-senators-kill-climate-bill-passed-by-house/article4348505/

Not many would care about his senate stacking prowess if he did not "vow repeatedly to never appoint unelected senators".

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/01/chris-selley-how-stephen-harper-created-a-crisis-by-badly-mishandling-senate-appointments/

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Boges]

Here you go: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-senators-kill-climate-bill-passed-by-house/article4348505/

Not many would care about his senate stacking prowess if he did not "vow repeatedly to never appoint unelected senators".

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/01/chris-selley-how-stephen-harper-created-a-crisis-by-badly-mishandling-senate-appointments/

Haven't you already read that Harper is awaiting a ruling by the Supreme Court to see how he can reform the Senate.

[Mighty AC]

So it's acceptable to make false claims when running for office as long as he asks the appropriate "how to" questions after power has been obtained, used and abused?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Boges]

So it's acceptable to make false claims when running for office as long as he asks the appropriate "how to" questions after power has been obtained, used and abused?

Dalton McGuinty did a lot more of that. Remember he pledged to change the 407 contract.

The difference is, the promises Dalton broke weren't dealing with stuff enshrined in confederation.

[Mighty AC]

Dalton McGuinty did a lot more of that. Remember he pledged to change the 407 contract.

The difference is, the promises Dalton broke weren't dealing with stuff enshrined in confederation.

What do the broken promises of another have to do with Harper? Do the lies of other politicians dictate what is acceptable for our PM? I'm fairly certain that the 407 contract had nothing to do with Harper stacking the senate, after he vowed not to, and then using it to kill a bill (without even holding a debate) passed by the elected house of commons.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mighty AC

[WWWTT]

Haven't you already read that Harper is awaiting a ruling by the Supreme Court to see how he can reform the Senate.

In the meantime he has no real interest in doing anything but using the senate for his only political gain!

See Duffy and Wallin.

Nice try to deflect, I guess you forgot about all that stuff!

WWWTT

[Boges]

Harper got a majority after killing that bill so it's not a big deal anymore.

I don't really believe Harper loves having to deal with the Senate. How does it benefit him now? Right now it's hurting him.

If you're thinking he always wanted to stack the Senate while having a minority in the house as a Safeguard against the opposition you'd have to provide more evidence than the story of that one bill he killed.

But this thread isn't about Harper. We know what his current policy is on Senate reform.

It's about JT's half-measure in kicking all the Liberal Senators out of the Party.

[PIK]

By stacking the senate harper kept the 3 amigoes from filling it with separtists.

[PIK]

In the meantime he has no real interest in doing anything but using the senate for his only political gain!

See Duffy and Wallin.

Nice try to deflect, I guess you forgot about all that stuff!

WWWTT

LOL He can't do anything untill he finds out what he can do legally and JT could be in a heap of trouble for what he just did.

[Mighty AC]

Harper got a majority after killing that bill so it's not a big deal anymore.

I don't really believe Harper loves having to deal with the Senate. How does it benefit him now? Right now it's hurting him.

If you're thinking he always wanted to stack the Senate while having a minority in the house as a Safeguard against the opposition you'd have to provide more evidence than the story of that one bill he killed.

But this thread isn't about Harper. We know what his current policy is on Senate reform.

It's about JT's half-measure in kicking all the Liberal Senators out of the Party.

After the Harper government whipped his stacked, unelected senate to kill a bill passed by the democratically elected HOC, representing the majority of Canadians, I am very happy that JT has freed Liberal senators from control by the party leader. It's a step in the right direction. Sure we know what Harper says about senate reform but we also have seen him order the worst abuse of senate power in 80 years. Again, there is a large disconnect between Harper's words and actions.

[Mighty AC]

Boges, why are lies considered acceptable when Conservatives tells them?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Boges]

After the Harper government whipped his stacked, unelected senate to kill a bill passed by the democratically elected HOC.

If that was so bad then why wasn't it used against him in the 2011 election? Never heard Iggy mention it.

I'd like to know how JT can reconcile this proposed "consultation" to appoint a-political Senators and an elected Senate. Who gets the input exactly? Of course he doesn't have to do any of that because he's not in power.

[Mighty AC]

Exactly. I sincerely hope JT is stuck with the problem of sorting out senate reform.

[Boges]

Boges, why are lies considered acceptable when Conservatives tells them?

Harper stacking the Senate is such old news. He's won 2 election since he started appointing Senators. If this Senate stuff is the only thing the opposition is going to use to hammer Harper then I think he might actually win the next election because for most Canadians it's irrelevant.

[cybercoma]

That means unelected senators can overturn a law passed by the elected House and the PM can't do diddly squat about it? That's some great democracy there Lou.

That's exactly how it works regardless. The Prime Minister has no control over the Senate, nor should he. If it's to be representative of the federation and a house of sober second thought, then it must remain free from the influence of party politics and the fickle tides of populist opinions.

It's an interesting move from Trudeau, but make no mistake about it; Trudeau kicked the Senators out of caucus to insulate himself from the audit report that's coming down the pipe.

[cybercoma]

It's easy to make moves like this when you're the 3rd party in the House.

They're not third party in the Senate. This certainly wasn't "easy."

[cybercoma]

What does this accompish??? They will still collect thier entitlements

You mean, they're still going to pay people for doing their job? Oh man. What a travesty.

[Boges]

They're not third party in the Senate. This certainly wasn't "easy."

How do you know if it was or wasn't. Doesn't sound like he consulted with too many people about this. The Senators certainly weren't made aware of his plans.

That's exactly how it works regardless. The Prime Minister has no control over the Senate, nor should he. If it's to be representative of the federation and a house of sober second thought, then it must remain free from the influence of party politics and the fickle tides of populist opinions.

Which is why most people want the Senate reformed or abolished. What JT did is meaningless because, I'd hope, the Supreme Court would rule on what can be done about the Senate before the 2015 election.

[Mighty AC]

Harper stacking the Senate is such old news. He's won 2 election since he started appointing Senators. If this Senate stuff is the only thing the opposition is going to use to hammer Harper then I think he might actually win the next election because for most Canadians it's irrelevant.

Senate problems are not old news for Harper and they certainly resonate with his base. As it turns out some of the unelected senators he appointed to gain control of the senate (and of course to raise funds for the party) are the root of his current scandal issues.

Harper killed a bill passed by an elected body, by personally appointing senators and then controlling their vote. So essentially, he personally vetoed a motion that had the support of MPs representing the majority of Canadians. I bring this up because, like a dictator, Harper made a mockery of our parliamentary system by overruling the will of the people and JTs move would make that far more difficult. Granted JT's motives are political not ideological but any move that could reduce the dictatorial PMO Harper has built is a step in the right direction.

[WWWTT]

LOL He can't do anything untill he finds out what he can do legally and JT could be in a heap of trouble for what he just did.

So since he was waiting for a court ruling, he was forced to use the senate to solicit political contributions!

Don't try to create a bill to start addressing any issues with the senate. Let the court deal with it. Unless of course it's about jail times for some offenders. Don't need court approval for passing unconstitutional laws then.

So where's the consistency?

As far as JT, more smoke and mirrors.

WWWTT

[PIK]

So since he was waiting for a court ruling, he was forced to use the senate to solicit political contributions!

Don't try to create a bill to start addressing any issues with the senate. Let the court deal with it. Unless of course it's about jail times for some offenders. Don't need court approval for passing unconstitutional laws then.

So where's the consistency?

As far as JT, more smoke and mirrors.

WWWTT

Was it illegal???

[WWWTT]

Was it illegal???

Still under RCMP investigation.

WWWTT

[Spiderfish]

It's an interesting move from Trudeau, but make no mistake about it; Trudeau kicked the Senators out of caucus to insulate himself from the audit report that's coming down the pipe.

Bingo!

It may not insulate him enough however. I have a suspicion this is not going to end with senate expenses, I think the main course is ultimately going to be an audit of all MP expenses. As we discovered last week, JT himself was found to have made some "honest mistakes" with his personal expense claims while he was on his public speaking gig.

[Spiderfish]

Harper stacked the senate to an unprecedented degree.

Actually, it's not without precedent. Chretien elected a total of 75 Senators during his 10 years as PM, 72 Liberals and 3 Independents. Harper has elected 59 Conservative Senators to date.