US Forces suspected of murdering Afghan civilians

[Moonlight Graham]

Rolling Stone initially reported the story last week, and now Rueters and Human Rights Watch, among others, report that the US is refusing to cooperate with investigations into the civilian murders, and Human Rights Watch is demanding the US cooperate with the investigations:

(Reuters) - Afghanistan's intelligence service has abandoned its investigation into the murder of a group of civilians after being refused access to U.S. special forces soldiers suspected of involvement, according to a document obtained by Reuters.

17 men disappeared after being detained in U.S. raids in Wardak province between October 2012 and February 2013. Bodies of 10 of the men were found by residents in shallow graves within several hundred meters of the U.S. soldiers' base.

In the report authored by Afghanistan's National Directorate of Security (NDS) intelligence agency, investigators said they had asked the United States for access to three U.S. Green Berets and four Afghan translators working with them but were rebuffed.

"Despite many requests by NDS they have not cooperated. Without their cooperation this process cannot be completed," said the report, which was originally published on September 23.

Doesn't look very good for the US forces, given the civilians were buried so close to the base (who else would be able to do such a thing besides US forces?). Unfortunately, "under current rules, Afghan authorities have no right to charge U.S. military personnel with crimes as they are immune from Afghan law under a decade-old military agreement", similar to in Iraq.

[ReeferMadness]

Good luck getting to the bottom of that case.

[Army Guy]

I think there are alot of assumptions being made here. first one is calling them civilians to start off with, do you really think that a spec ops unit deals with day to day raids to pick up civilians, thats what regular force units do. By the time you call in the Spec ops it's because the raid is difficult to achieve, or intel has already ID them as high priority targets, the real bad guys.

second these guys are one of the best fighting units in the world, speaking 2 to 3 languages, univeristy educated, trained in 2 or 3 specialties, access to every military piece of equipment the US forces has... ...do you really think they would be that dumb to just kill them and bury them in the back yard....I mean come on, why not just board them aboard a helo and push them out over the mountains if that was the case...

Third is the translators are Afghan citizens, all ASI has to do is pick them up once they leave the base. they are not covered by any agreement, and would come under Afghan law.

Another piont to note that it is not just the US government that does not release any of it's soldiers to foreign agencies, it is every nation within the coalition. Every seen an afghan prison, NATO soldiers would be dead within an hour of being arrested....because they are full of taliban.

I'm sure that the US will do it's own investagtion into what happen, or already have and have deemed it was not their guys.

[cybercoma]

I certainly wouldn't discount it simply based on who they are. There have been many times when I've heard of people, whom I wouldn't expect, doing deplorable things.

[Topaz]

I'm sure like Nam, this is another war the US wants to forget, did the good outweigh the bad?

[Army Guy]

I'm sure like Nam, this is another war the US wants to forget, did the good outweigh the bad?

Have you been to afghanistan, have you compared Afghanistan pre war to the Afghanistan post war. you tell me

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm sure that the US will do it's own investagtion into what happen, or already have and have deemed it was not their guys.

Of course they've deemed it was not their guys, that's what they always do.

But who would or could kill civilians and then bury them a few hundred metres from a US base...without the base's knowledge or intervention?

[Guest Derek L]

Of course they've deemed it was not their guys, that's what they always do.

But who would or could kill civilians and then bury them a few hundred metres from a US base...without the base's knowledge or intervention?

The same guys that could plant IEDs outside of them, and get within rocket and mortar range?

[Moonlight Graham]

The same guys that could plant IEDs outside of them, and get within rocket and mortar range?

What's more likely? 10 Afghan men arrested by US forces...:

1. ...were killed and buried by US forces in 6 separate locations within a few hundred metres of the US military base they were taken to.

or

2. ......were released by US forces then all quickly captured by someone else (Taliban?) and killed, then they dug 10 holes to bury the bodies in 6 separate locations within a few hundred metres of the US military base they were initially taken to without the knowledge of US forces.

[bleeding heart]

If US officials have nothing to hide, they should cooperate with the investigation.

[Guest Derek L]

What's more likely? 10 Afghan men arrested by US forces...:

1. ...were killed and buried by US forces in 6 separate locations within a few hundred metres of the US military base they were taken to.

or

2. ......were released by US forces then all quickly captured by someone else (Taliban?) and killed, then they dug 10 holes to bury the bodies in 6 separate locations within a few hundred metres of the US military base they were initially taken to without the knowledge of US forces.

I've no idea, but as pointed out by Army Guy, if these alleged Americans did do it, there are a great many ways to ride bodies in the mountains. With that said, my point was a demonstration that a group of Taliban could bury the bodies along a base perimeter, hence the case is not as clear cut as you purport.

[Guest Derek L]

If US officials have nothing to hide, they should cooperate with the investigation.

They won't, like Army Guy mentioned, for the simple reason why all NATO members "over there" don't hands their members over to the locals, but if there is any actual suspicion on the part of the Green Berets by the US Army CIDC, they will be investigated………

Now if this thread is about baseless accusations, I speculate that these killings and disposal of the bodies were not carried out by Green Berets, nor even the Taliban, but the ANA and Afghani intelligence service. I do so for two simple reasons……First the base is a predominantly Afghani army base and second, the US/NATO forces generally hand prisoners over to the local intelligence service for tenderizing.

[Moonlight Graham]

With that said, my point was a demonstration that a group of Taliban could bury the bodies along a base perimeter, hence the case is not as clear cut as you purport.

I think it would be harder to bury them so close than you say. Mortars have ranges of thousands of meters, not hundreds. They can also be quickly set up, fired, and taken away. IED's wouldn't take long to set up either, and do you have instances of several IED's planted within hundreds of metres of a US base (filled with Green Beret Special Forces mind you, not typical US grunts)?

To carry 10 dead bodies within hundreds of metres of a US base of Special Forces, dig holes, and bury the bodies and/or body parts, fill the holes and run away undetected and seemingly without those US forces ever knowing it ever happened is quite the operation. If an Afghan shepherd initially found the bodies, how in the world did US Special Forces miss them?

[Guest Derek L]

I think it would be harder to bury them so close than you say. Mortars have ranges of thousands of meters, not hundreds. They can also be quickly set up, fired, and taken away.

Mortars with ranges measured in the thousands of meters are not "quickly set-up, fired and taken away", but typically crew serviced and if not mounted in one, in tandem with a vehicle.

IED's wouldn't take long to set up either,

Depends on their size and if/hwo deep they were planted.

and do you have instances of several IED's planted within hundreds of metres of a US base (filled with Green Beret Special Forces mind you, not typical US grunts)?

As mentioned in the article, the Green Beret detachment was what’s called an “A-Team”, which is a small group of Green Berets traveling lightly, and like their use in Vietnam and now Afghanistan, used as advisors and trainers of a larger force of indigenous soldiers.

To carry 10 dead bodies within hundreds of metres of a US base of Special Forces, dig holes, and bury the bodies and/or body parts, fill the holes and run away undetected and seemingly without those US forces ever knowing it ever happened is quite the operation. If an Afghan shepherd initially found the bodies, how in the world did US Special Forces miss them?

They could have been out in the field.......or no longer at the ANA camp/base.

[Army Guy]

I know most of our bases down south and in Kabul, civilian population was butted right up to our wire within 50 ft ...Remember not all the bases were built, but rather taken over as ex warehouses of manufacture plants, all NATO did was put fences and bunkers up. So sneaking up to the wire is not all that big of a task. Also remember that this base security, is probably done by ANA....the spec ops camp would be a camp within a camp so to speak....ANA has had problems with inflitration by taliban.

[Guest Derek L]

I know most of our bases down south and in Kabul, civilian population was butted right up to our wire within 50 ft ...Remember not all the bases were built, but rather taken over as ex warehouses of manufacture plants, all NATO did was put fences and bunkers up. So sneaking up to the wire is not all that big of a task. Also remember that this base security, is probably done by ANA....the spec ops camp would be a camp within a camp so to speak....ANA has had problems with inflitration by taliban.

From the facts presented, I’d assume the guilty party not to the American army or the Taliban, but the Afghani intelligence service, perhaps with the help of the ANA……..

[Army Guy]

Not sure who did it, Pretty sure it was not the US forces....As every nation has been blamed at one time or another about mishandling POW's or killing prisoners, and for the most part they have been false.....This happens almost every week over there ...this has always been a media war, one faction blaming another to make them look bad. something like the Bosina war.

Things are drawing to a close over there, soon ANA and AIS will have to stand on their own, and for the most part they can't wait for NATO forces to leave so they can run their own country they way they want. May be this is some way to discredit the US some how , just not sure why. or should i say i have a theory but i can't prove any of it so won't post it.