Heinz closing

[cybercoma]

You said Canada and Ontario should invest. Normally when people say a political entity invests, they mean the political entity. The reader doesn't assume you mean private individuals living there.

[bush_cheney2004]

You said Canada and Ontario should invest. Normally when people say a political entity invests, they mean the political entity. The reader doesn't assume you mean private individuals living there.

Canada and Ontario are more than politcal entities. Any reader expecting that investment automatically means government speaks volumes about their mindset when it comes to such things. "U.S. (or other foreign) capital investment" hardly means public entities in such a context.

Edited November 16, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bleeding heart]

A slight misunderstanding, and it scarcely "speaks volumes," unless one is attempting point-scoring in an online discussion.

Edited November 16, 2013 by bleeding heart

[bush_cheney2004]

A slight misunderstanding, and it scarcely "speaks volumes" outside of attempted point-scoring in an online discussion.

No, it does "speak volumes", and was an unexpected bonus. Carry on....

[bleeding heart]

No, it does "speak volumes", and was an unexpected bonus. Carry on....

"Unexpected bonus." Case closed.

[bush_cheney2004]

"Unexpected bonus." Case closed.

No, the plant will be closing. Try to stay on topic if you can.

[cybercoma]

Any reader expecting that investment automatically means government speaks volumes...

Speaks volumes about what? Your inability to actually write what you mean? When you say Canada and Ontario should invest, I expect you to mean that Canada and Ontario should invest. If you meant private citizens, then you should have made that clear by writing Canadians and Ontarians. But that's not what you wrote.

[bush_cheney2004]

Speaks volumes about what? Your inability to actually write what you mean? When you say Canada and Ontario should invest, I expect you to mean that Canada and Ontario should invest. If you meant private citizens, then you should have made that clear by writing Canadians and Ontarians. But that's not what you wrote.

If it is your habit to lash out first and seek clarification later, then that is your choice. Certainly the term "foreign investment" is not so construed. Depending on foreign capital to stand up operations in Canada or Ontario for Canadians or Ontarians will only lead to more heartache.

[madmax]

Is it the coservative race to the bottom, or is it all of our own greed to push our jobs, manufacture plants, else where.

I don't know too many Canadians that can live on $30 a month..

However, when I think of Greed, I can only think of the RIM CEO leaving with a $22million bonus and the incoming getting an $88million package , from a company on the ropes that lost $1billion in a quarter.

Now, IIRC , Leamington is the home of THOUSANDS of Migrant workers and they will be going home for good. NO need to be in the fields or the manufacturing plant..

[madmax]

Exactly. And we can thank much of the increased cost of manufacturing to our green friends in the province. But they care about the middle class don't you know.

Hydro increases to manufacturing began during the Harris Era with the intent towards privatization. This is the plan the PCs wanted and the Libs went ahead and followed through with it.

Yes it sucks...

However, Back in the 90s it was determined then that Canada did not want a manufacturing sector and wanted appease the manufacturers desire to locate into 3rd world countries and then sell their goods here without tarrifs.

It is no one thing, and it certainly isn't the result of some windmills, no matter how poor that policy is.

There have been numerous bad decisions over the past 25 years, and I swear , there is no politician in the PCs, or the Liberals that understand a tinkers damn the manufacturing industry.

But there sure are alot of boneheads with idealogical opinions....

[madmax]

19,365 are not immigrants.. while....

7,485 are immigrants. The majority of immigrants come from Mexico and Jamaica and are seasonal laborers. According to the census, Leamington had the highest percentage of Latin Americans in Canada, with 4.9%.[8]

I just read the comments from Hudak and Hoskins...

Perfect loser politicians doing another blame game dance...

The bleeding will continue!!!

[Topaz]

This also has to do with the new feds law of labeling , which was going to cost more and that probably was the last straw. Heinz had contracts for 7000 acres of tomatoes, which was divided up between the farmers in Essex and Chatham-Kent about 25 million dollars. Heinz is also closing US plants too. Tomatoes have to have a lot of acid in the ground and some think they won't get the same taste in their ketchup that they have now out of Leamington. The farmers will probably survive, but the workers at the plant may not be so lucky depending on what the company is willing to give.

[Michael Hardner]

This also has to do with the new feds law of labeling , which was going to cost more and that probably was the last straw.

Labeling ? And imported tomatoes don't have to be labeled ?

[TimG]

Labeling ? And imported tomatoes don't have to be labeled ?

There has been an issue for years where re-processors can import ingredients (i.e. apples) from places like China and label the package (i.e. juice) as made in Canada. Canadian farmers lobbied to change the rules to better match what consumers expect when they see a made in Canada label. Edited November 17, 2013 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/02228.html

"made" meaning the good was 'transformed'.... I see...

[Topaz]

The feds were going to make changes to labelling and the size of the containers and then they started to get complaint from processors because of the cost and since Leamington is held by a Tory MP, he told the farmers on Saturday they are holding off on that decision. In other words, there's an election coming up and the Tories need all the MPs they have. The minster of Agriculture should have talked to the processors BEFORE he went and did this.

[Mighty AC]

This is another example of how free trade agreements erode the middle class. The company will increase profits and a few people at the top will benefit while at the same time an entire community is devastated.

1,000 workers are directly affected plus the suppliers, plant service businesses and an entire community of shops that will feel the pinch as people are forced to cut back. The loss of livable wage jobs is not offset by saving a buck on t-shirt at Walmart.

Property values in the area will fall and local governments will experience shortfalls. Considering, income taxes make up the lion's share of federal revenue, how long can this game continue?

[Michael Hardner]

This is another example of how free trade agreements erode the middle class. The company will increase profits and a few people at the top will benefit while at the same time an entire community is devastated.

... Considering, income taxes make up the lion's share of federal revenue, how long can this game continue?

The middle class will be under attack, as ever industry is, by a single thing: change.

How long can this game continue ? Since the overall economic benefit increases, the answer seems to be 'indefinitely'.

What's the alternative ? Maybe we can look at ways to capitalize on the overall economic benefit ?

[bush_cheney2004]

The middle class is actually being redefined and is growing globally. "North Americans" who compete well on this larger playing field will succeed, while those who lament the loss of their jobs and take too much time to cry about it will be left behind.

[Mighty AC]

The middle class will be under attack, as ever industry is, by a single thing: change.

How long can this game continue ? Since the overall economic benefit increases, the answer seems to be 'indefinitely'.

What's the alternative ? Maybe we can look at ways to capitalize on the overall economic benefit ?

My question was, how long can we continue to erode the bulk of our tax base?

You ask a good question though. What can be done so that more middle class north americans capitalize on the overall economic benefit?

In my opinion, we can't thrive off of just highly skilled professional jobs and low paying service positions. The widespread erosion of secondary industry not only eliminates decent paying, low and semi-skilled positions, but also drastically lowers demand for spin off business often serviced by skilled trades.

I think the eventual modernization of our energy systems will partially replace some our lost manufacturing jobs. Smart grid construction and maintenance along with local, renewable energy generation and building retrofitting will fill some gaps. Additionally, we could follow the Norwegian example and bank a large portion of the wealth generated through resource extraction. The fund, when used to provide services, helps reduce the wealth gap.

Beyond that I'm not sure. Could we incentivize local processing and production without violating trade laws? Possibly encourage vertically integrated co-ops?

[Mighty AC]

When considering topics such as this, I find it interesting to think about what the west will go to war to protect and what we willing give away. It really highlights how politicians pay lip service to middle class voters while obeying the ownership class.

[Topaz]

Perhaps in the big cities people don't notice it but life is getting very tough for some. The small communities are being hit financially as they struggle to keep taxes low because their base doesn't have high paying jobs and more unemployment than ever. The Corp. world is really governing countries and Canada is no exception. If governments keep downloading down to the next level,, then Canada will go back to the recession of the 1930's and I don't think the generations of today could handle that and the food bank will have more business than business.

[Mighty AC]

Deleted: Post made in the wrong thread.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Michael Hardner]

My question was, how long can we continue to erode the bulk of our tax base?

Oddly, we seem to be better at balancing the books than we were 30 years ago, though. Why is that ?

In my opinion, we can't thrive off of just highly skilled professional jobs and low paying service positions. The widespread erosion of secondary industry not only eliminates decent paying, low and semi-skilled positions, but also drastically lowers demand for spin off business often serviced by skilled trades.

Except, somehow, 'skilled trades' like massage therapists, home renovations, chefs and so on. There are reasons for optimism in those industries.

What about a higher minimum wage ? Are you going to still buy Starbucks if the cost goes up fifty cents ? I will.

The energy thing will only take off if there is value in alternative energy beyond feeling good about ourselves.

You can incentivize local processing in some ways as long as you're not subsidizing local goods or penalizing foreign producers. But RMTs, home renovation people and chefs are pre-localized so no problem there.

[dre]

Oddly, we seem to be better at balancing the books than we were 30 years ago, though. Why is that ?

Well... balanced books started during the liberal era under finance minister martin. They cut services, cut military spending, and offloaded most of cost of medicare to the provinces. Theres also been an increase in royalty revenue from harvesting resources.

Theres also a trend towards privatization for the purpose of balancing books. For example, the government out here in BC sold the rail beds then said "look! we balanced the budget". Flogging public assets is a rather short sighted approach to meeting budget predictions. Picture you selling your house and car so that your books looked good for a given fiscal year! The headlines read "Mike Hardner ran a 300 thousand dollar surplus this year!" Yahooo!. Problem is now you dont have a house and a car....

Edited November 19, 2013 by dre