bud Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm more interested in history that political apologies. what? you just asked me about why i'm not making posts about saudi arabia and i gave a legitimate answer and then you respond with: "i'm more interested in history ... " blah blah, grand mufti, blah blah. how can one have a debate with you, when you display this type of attention span and go off on tangents like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 what? you just asked me about why i'm not making posts about saudi arabia and i gave a legitimate answer and then you respond with: "i'm more interested in history ... " blah blah, grand mufti, blah blah. how can one have a debate with you, when you display this type of attention span and go off on tangents like this? You can keep pretending the Grand Mufti didn't exist and didn't start all your problems if you like. It merely confirms what we on the 'Zionist' side already suspect about you and your group the CJPME. BTW...you never 'debate'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) not sure if you are purposely posting misinformation or you made a mistake but i need to correct your misinformation. if you are referring to me, i have never said "zionists should be wiped off the face of the earth". i have said zionism, just like other extreme ideologies like wahabism should be resisted and outlawed. simply because they both have views and engage in actions that are criminal and violate human rights. if you can find a post where i or anyone else have said: "zionists should be wiped off the face of the earth", then post it. thanks. I immediately corrected by erratum about you stating Zionists should be wiped off the face of the earth. I concede here and now when you talk about dismantling Israel and getting rid of Zionists you hold off on such words but you do make it clear you believe in the same ideology as Hudson but no your references for extinguishing the Zionist precedent is more delicate. Lol. Does it really matter? You are more delicate right? But does it matter? Read the above. You criticize Zionism by equating it with Wahabism. Interestingly though you have never criticized and called for the outlawing of Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Quaeda or any other Muslim extremist group. Your selectivity is blatantly obvious throughout your continuing posts and threads. The only thing you criticize is Zionism and Israel and now a back handed reference to Wahabism? Lol. Get real.Will you now hold Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah Hawks and the countless other Muslim extremist organizations to the same standard as you do Zionists? Why only Wahabis? Say now Bud weren't you the one cheering on Turkey's support of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood? Say now, where were you when Mr.Morsi was slaughtering Coptic Christians in the name of the Muslim Brotherhood? Where were you when the Muslim extremist regime massacered en mass the Southern Sudanese? Where were you when Al Quaeda enaged in open slaughter in Malawi? Where were you when Ghaddafi road rough-shod over Libya? When have you ever criticized any Muslim extremist group anywhere in the world let alone the Middle East other than this new little dig at the Wahabis? Lol..show me a post? See we can both play that game Bud. If you want to try back pedal and rationalize your anti Zionist bias that's of course your perfect right and what is expected in a debate. Yes I know, you will never admit you are bias and your agenda is limited to only criticizing supporters or citizens wishing to live or remain living in a Jewish state. Uh yes its clear. That is the point Bud and precisely why you are challenged. Your bias, your inconsistencies, double standards, contradictory standards are what are being challenged. Your political agenda is clear. You come on this forum to single out selectively Israel, question its right to exist, and engage in negative and often disparaging and derogatory references as to the motives of all Zionists, all Jews who believe they have a right to remain living in a Jewish state, and anyone who believes Jews have as much right to a state as anyone else including Muslims and Palestinians. For those reasons I will challenge you. Every time you use this forum to degrade Zionists or the right of Jews to live as a collective people I will challenge you. Every time you make comments that challenge the right of Jews to live as Jews I will challenge you. As for labelling American Woman as pro American or me or Dog as pro American, pro Israeli, etc., the 2 of them do not need my defence but we do not hide are biases or try spin them as something they are not. We are not afraid to admit our biases. Why are you? Edited October 30, 2013 by Rue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 In fact our government is allied with Saudi Arabia is that so? do show where they've claimed to be allies. canada and saudi do quite a bit of trade, but they're not 'allies'. canada does keep hush-hush in regards to saudi's internal policies which, most likely, has to do with the trading it does. there are two major differences between canada-israel relationship and canada-saudi relationship, despite their human rights violations: 1) the harper government goes out of its way to apologize for israel, despite their violations of human rights and international law against those they occupy 2) saudi's policies are internal and inside saudi arabia. they're not engaged in occupying another group of people. my comments about wahabists and their spinoffs, like the taliban, have more to do with their actions around the world. their ideology and actions break human rights laws and international law. an side-note: israel and saudi arabia have become quite chummy and bff's in the middle east. this is mostly to do with their shared interest in iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Could it possibly be you once engage in a reference that casts a negative generalization on all Jews? Your failed projections aside, maybe you can show me where I have said just that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The only thing you criticize is Zionism and Israel and now a back handed reference to Wahabism which oopsy is interesting since you have zero to say about the extremist Muslim terror groups in Sudan, Yemen, Mali, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Yemen, Iraq or Turkey's support of Hamas. this goes back to what i said earlier to dogonporch. our government does not support and make excuses when it comes to those violators. there is no point for me to preach to the choir as i don't think anyone here would disagree about the crap that goes on in those countries. but israel is different. israel is excused and apologized for by our government and posters such as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Can you detail your group's boycott plan for the Palestinian Arabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 even though i support the group's effort to give a voice to the those who are experiencing injustice, i'm not their spokesman. i'm not here to represent them. i'm here to voice my own opinion on issues. so no, i will not make comments about the group's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 even though i support the group's effort to give a voice to the those who are experiencing injustice, i'm not their spokesman. i'm not here to represent them. i'm here to voice my own opinion on issues. so no, i will not make comments about the group's plans. No worries. Your group, the CJPME, has zero plans to do any boycotting of the Palestinian Arabs. Nor any other group or country besides Israel. In fact, if the agenda goes counter to promoting Israel as an apartheid state, your group simply isn't interested. As Ministry said in one of their fine songs... "You know what you are." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 i just re-read your comment and noticed that you're wondering about boycotting palestinian arabs. seriously? i find your ideas and whatever point you're trying to make to be incoherent and mostly ridiculous. are palestinians occupying and annexing another people's land for decades? do they have illegal settlements? you remind me of people who blame rape victims for dressing too sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) this goes back to what i said earlier to dogonporch. our government does not support and make excuses when it comes to those violators. there is no point for me to preach to the choir as i don't think anyone here would disagree about the crap that goes on in those countries. but israel is different. israel is excused and apologized for by our government and posters such as yourself. Not so fast Bud. Stop making sweeping negative generalizations about me or my beliefs. Once again you make a negative generalization that because I believe Jews have a right to live in a collective state called Israel that makes me an "Israel apologist" . Your latest name calling suggests I don't just support the right of Jews to live in a state, but any or all Israeli state policies. I do not and have never mixed the two concepts. You do. Not me. when you claim to criticize Israeli state policies, but then make it clear with your comments that it's not Israeli state policies you challenge buytin fact the right of any Jew to live in the collective state of Israel then I challenge you for doing that claiming you are using the pretext of criticizing an Israeli state policy to in fact denigrate the concept of Zionism and the right of Jews to live in an Israeli state. Your comments blame any or all action sof Israel's government with all the people of Israel who believe they should continue to live in a Jewish state and then go on to slur anyone else who believes they have a right to live in a Jewish state. You assign negative blame to all Israeli citizens for the actions of their government. You blame all Zionists and all Jews and anyone who supports the right of Jews to exist in a Jewish state with any or all policies or actions you claim are unfair or brutal and initiated by the Israeli government. You came on this post to support Hudson for doing the same. You support his misappropriating the words of Zionists showing they openly criticize Israeli state policies to say that justifies stripping the state of its Jewish status and lumping these soldiers in one large foul reference with anyone else you perceive to be Zionist. The words are there on the threads Bud and spin as you try do you can't undo them now. You present the thesis that any or all questionable Israeli policies necessarily are caused by supporting the right of Jews to live in a Jewish state and then you go on to slur anyone who disagrees with you or you think is a Zionist with an apologist label for all Israeli state policies. That is what your posts and threads state and its up to readers to come to their own conclusions as to whether they think you are using only negative references to Israel because anything that shows Zionists are positive or kind would ruin your thesis of hatred towards Zionists. Your negative slurs as to all Zionists are illogical. You are well aware each day in the Israeli Zionist press, on its t.v., in all its media, in its Knesset, in its court system, in its election process, in its papers, Israeli citizens who believe they have a right to exist in the Jewish state of Israel criticize Israeli state policies just like the soldiers did whose words you and Hudson now try misappropriate. israel has the most critical press in the world. It has over 135 non profit legal organizations defending people who feel hard done by their government. Their knesset elects Muslims who openly call for the state to be dismantled as a Jewish state. Each day thousands of people who support Israel's right to exist as a jewish state, whether they are jewish or non Jewish criticize Israeli state policies. What makes it even more interesting is Israel openly allows the criticism when each and every organization you support, i.e., Hamas, Hezbollah and countries you support who seek the destruction of Israel, do not. You remain silent as to all the nations of the Middle East and their tyrany and lack of democracy and demand only Israel be dismantled. Other than a sudden reference to Wahabism, you do not use the standard you hold Jews to, to any other person in the Middle East and that is why I challenge you. Your comments are discriminatory, inconsistent, contradictory and illogical. As well your negative generalizations incite hate. They allow you to justify demonizing Jews for wanting to live in a Jewish state. Your thesis states if we allow Jews a Jewish state it can only result in bloodshed and evil. No Bud. Because I and others believe Jews have a right to exist in a Jewish state does not make us evil or demons or murderers or brutal monsters. Spin away Bud trying to engage in negative slurs that this Zionist and all others are demons because make no mistake Bud I am not hear to apologize, I am hear to challenge. I have nothing to apologize for. Edited October 31, 2013 by Rue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Your failed projections aside, maybe you can show me where I have said just that? I responded to the following comment you made: "Could possibly be that Jews are their own worst enemy." You produced the above comment. I challenged it as a negative slur against all Jews and contend once again how it shows you take a post that is supposedly pretexted on criticizing Israeli state policies and use it to slur all Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Canada does keep hush-hush in regards to saudi's internal policies which, most likely, has to do with the trading it does. there are two major differences between canada-israel relationship and canada-saudi relationship, despite their human rights violations: 1) the harper government goes out of its way to apologize for israel, despite their violations of human rights and international law against those they occupy 2) saudi's policies are internal and inside saudi arabia. they're not engaged in occupying another group of people. my comments about wahabists and their spinoffs, like the taliban, have more to do with their actions around the world. their ideology and actions break human rights laws and international law. an side-note: israel and saudi arabia have become quite chummy and bff's in the middle east. this is mostly to do with their shared interest in iran. 1. In regards to your comment Canada supports Israeli policies on the West Bank it does not and has made it clear it does not. Provide one comment Harper made that supports Israeli settlers on the West Bank. You can't. He has never stated such a policy. Again you present a misrepresentation. You suggest because Harper has criticized Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas and because he supports the state of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state it means he has supported their policies on the West Bank. This is false but its what you do, spin and misrepresent to suggest any support of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state means they agree with problematic issues on the West Bank Israel may be part of. That is patently false. 2.Your comments about Saudi Arabia are inconsistent with your standard of criticism. In Israel's case you challenge its very right to exist as a Jewish state and do not limit yourself to criticizing simply its actions on the West Bank. Your inference is that its o.k. to remain silent when a country only abuses people within its borders not outside its borders. Nonsense. More to the point, Stephen Harper has criticized human rights violations within China, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Syria and has stated excessive force used by the IDF is not acceptable. You again misrepresent what Harper has in fact stated and your thesis about refraining from internal comments is contradicted by you with Israel. You couldn't care less what Israel does ad where it does it. You are against Israel existing as a Jewish state. You believe as you have stated all countries should deny Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state so please save the references to internal v. external. Your own words show you don't make the distinction and Harper has clearly criticized the internal affairs of countries. In fact China criticized him for it and now he is criticized for backing off. Where we agree is Harper puts trade before human rights. He had no problems going to Malaysia a Muslim sharia law state responsible for numerous human rights violations. He had no problems remaining silent on China on a visit and refraining from human rights discussions that might offend his host. In that sense he is no different then any other leader. Business before anything else. 3. Your comments about Wahabis above is funny. Absolutely funny. Now suddenly you criticize Whabis and Talbin for engaging in terrorism overseas or breaking international law/ really? Say now, you seem selective. Hamas remember them/ Muslim Brotherhood remember them? How about Fatah Hawks, Intifadah, the Sudanese government, the Iranian government, Turkey in Kurd Iraq, Turkey supporting Hamas, Turkey supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. Where were you then when the Muslim Brotherhood slaughtered Coptic Christians? Say now, did you say anything about Al Quaeda? Give the selectivity a rest Bud. Coming on this forum now to select only the Wahabis for criticism to try justoify singling out only Israel as extremist is pale. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I responded to the following comment you made: "Could possibly be that Jews are their own worst enemy." And I see no anti-semitism in saying that. One could argue that Muslims are their own worst enemy, but for very different reasons. And not many would complain here if that comparison was made. Lift up another rock, you might find yet another insult towards Jews. But how do you even have dialogue, even when Israeli and Jews that come out critical against Israel are somehow labeled anti-semites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 i just re-read your comment and noticed that you're wondering about boycotting palestinian arabs. seriously? i find your ideas and whatever point you're trying to make to be incoherent and mostly ridiculous. are palestinians occupying and annexing another people's land for decades? do they have illegal settlements? you remind me of people who blame rape victims for dressing too sexy. Their government(s) are terrorists and murderers who glorify anti-Semitism and killing Jews. But, that's not enough for even a boycott from your little band o' merry men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, This thread is locked because it was hijacked by people who refuse to stay on topic. I do not plan to re-open it. If somebody wants to discuss Female Israeli soldiers speak out about the Israeli sickness then you are welcome to re-start a new thread on that same topic. I apologize for letting the trolls ruin it for everyone. The rest of you who insist on discussing everything-except-Female Israeli soldiers speak out about the Israeli sickness will have to start your own threads. Ch. A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts